#85: How a Safety Pro Became a King

Jill James:

This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode was recorded December 8th, 2021. My name is Jill James HSI, Chief Safety Officer. And today I'm joined by Manti Michael Nota. Manti is an industrial hygienist from Tanzania who has dedicated his career to improving occupational health in Africa.

Currently, Manti is the industrial hygiene project coordinator and Nigeria safer mines mining project coordinator with occupational knowledge international or OKI, embedded to medicine and frontier or doctors without borders.

Manti is registered and certified with British Occupational Hygiene Society and South African Institute for Occupational Hygiene, and is the occupational hygiene and executive director, chairman of the board of directors at Healthy Working Environments, NGO, Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. Mantis work, improving occupational health in Africa is an understatement. In fact, it's phenomenal, and I can't wait for you to hear all about it.

This past October, the American Public Health Association, Occupational Health and Safety Section held their annual award ceremony to honor the work of individuals or organizations who advocate for the health and safety of workers in the United States and internationally. It was at this award ceremony where I heard Manti accept the 2021 Leslie Nickel International Health and Safety Award. Manti joins us today from his home in Tanzania. Welcome Manti. And thank you so much for being here.

Manti Michael Nota:

Thank you very much, Julie. I am so excited to be with you here, and this is good luck to have you here. Thank you.

Jill James:

Thank you. I think it's good luck for all of our listeners. So Manti, when we do this podcast, we often start out by asking people how they got things started. And so question for you, where did you grow up?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yeah, actually I grew up in Northern Tanzania, one of the region called Mwanza. It's normally known as the Rock City. And that's where I start my school, ordinary and high school. And I travel outside like 1,000 kilometer away from home for university. So yes.

Jill James:

What is it like there in terms of what's the industry? What do people do for living there?

Manti Michael Nota:

So normally knows Tanzania, it is around the Goldberg area whereby you find like three, four states, like Shinyanga, Mwanza, Geita and Tabora. This area it's normally like a Gold Belt. And most of the work being done here by all the youths and everyone who dreaming to be rich, it's normally mining.

And whenever anyone is growing to this area is dreaming to see if we can work with mining because mining is paying a lot. Not like no much, no other work. We do also farming and keeping cattle, but the most important work and the way you can get money, even if you have not gone to school or you have gone school, you dream to work in mining around this area.

Jill James:

Dream to work in mining. Wow, amazing. So when you had mentioned, you were educated in the area. When you were a young Manti, what did you dream of becoming? I mean, mining is big where you grew up, but what did you dream about as a young boy?

Manti Michael Nota:

Actually, I dreamed to be a footballer and a story. First I dreamed to be a footballer, as I mentioned, and a story started because my senior brother used to be a footballer. So I grow up when I was three or four year, five years, my brother taking me to the big ground for exercise when he used to play like the biggest league in Tanzania used to play Pamba and the other team biggest team.

So sometime they go to the camp and he sometime took me there. So I grew up when I saw the most beautiful things to do when I become adult to play football. But the time when I get to understand each, when I grow up when I was teenager around 12 or 14, I was like, thinking if I would not do the football, I was really like to be a pilot. So that one day I should be flying with the people in air.

So this was the most dream, two things that I was thinking I would be. And of course, unfortunately, couldn't be like that, yeah.

Jill James:

What did your parents think of that dream? Or what did they have other desires for you?

Manti Michael Nota:

As I said, I dreamed to be a footballer. So being a football is because I was seeing my brother, but for the pilot, because I see the airplane passing up. So I was thinking that this was how maybe I would be very rich to do the piloting.

Jill James:

Yes. How did your mother feel about that?

Manti Michael Nota:

My mother, she was the medical person. She was the nursing officer. So she has been an experience before she died, she was among the experiencing nursing in my country. So even in my state, so I grew up at home, seeing her taking care about the patient is in Africa. Someone gets sick. Sometimes they don't go to the hospital. They will come to knock the door and like, "We have this problem. Can you help us?" So like that mom, she will just prescribe.

But also her, she used to have like a pharmacy where every day I normally go there, like to clean before she come back from work. So she would come back from work from in the morning when she left, maybe around 6:00, after she come back around 4:00. She would just stay at home maybe for 30 minutes. Then she would ask me that if I have gone to the pharmacy and clean like that, so she would proceed the pharmacy until she get back. It'll be around maybe 10:00 in night.

So you can see that was the triangle. So when I'm sick, she would take me to the hospital like that. But I used to have like priority. So you cannot be in the queue, you get everything required. Of course, we used to have insurance because she used to be a medical person and they have insurance.

So with this life, she was really like to see me also, I become like a medical personnel, so that was her dream. She was like, she wanted me to be a medical personnel in all time. But the same time my brother dragging me to see I become a footballer, but also at the same time, my self dream, which is to drag me to be a pilot. So these are the three things. Go ahead.

Jill James:

Yeah. And you end up being an industrial hygienist. So what happened when you went to college?

Manti Michael Nota:

This was so strange. So the time my mom dragging and when I completed the high school, unfortunately I don't know if I was lucky or not lucky. After I completed my O level school, we normally select which combination you want to go to start like for high school specialization. It's normally three subject whereby you can maybe take physics, chemistry and mathematics or physics, chemistry, biology, or other combination.

So, because O level I was among the few students who selected additional mathematic to be like one of the subject. Of course, when you are in the last year of O level you normally been given a chance, I mean, before the two last year on the third year of the O level secondary school, you normally been given like a chance to select another subject, which you like to do it.

So I selected mathematics. This is additional mathematics. It's like the highest mathematics in all level, whereby it's normally been studied in high school. So this make me, after we were 40 in the class, we end up completing to do the final exam, like eight people.

And then in the high school, when I was selecting the combination, of course, my mother, she was pushing for me to do the physics, chemistry and biology so that I can be a medical personnel and specifically to be a doctor.

So unfortunately, on the selection I put PCB on the selection and the government selected me on the PCM. So this was not good, even though it was on the other side, because when I went to high school, they took me to a school whereby there is no combination of a PCB. So it was like a technical school. So I cannot change again to become a PCB.

So that's whereby things start changing. Like no, no, so probably I will not be a medical person, but I keep pushing as my mom also she was encouraging and trying to push for me to make you at that I went for medical. So we wrote a letter. We normally do like some lettering so that you can change the combination. But unfortunately, the high school in Tanzania, it's normally two years, the first year finish without getting the feedback from the government, if I could change, so.

Jill James:

Oh man.

Manti Michael Nota:

The whole time I was just doing two combinations. I did the PCM and I did the PCB. So the PCM I would be doing in the normal class and the PCB, like the biology, I would be doing like extra class. So I was using a lot of energy and then I end up, when I see the time is almost finishing, my mom asked me to get back home because she was like, "You have to start the PCB."

Anyway, on saying, when I was going to the last year, she asked me that I should stay at home and wait if possible to change or I should repeat another year if they will not answer me. So I was like, "No, let me try." And good things my senior brother used to know someone like his in-law who used to be the head mistress of one of the school.

So she asked me if I can be going practicing, because I was at home almost for three months, not going home, like say the combination in which I'm looking for it is on her school. So maybe I should be trying and going there and to start with the other people until when I will get the feedback. So when I did my mock exam, we normally have like mock exam, mock exam is like the pre-exam before the national exam.

Jill James:

Sure.

Manti Michael Nota:

So imagine I have completed one year in another school, high school. When I come back home, my mother asked me, maybe I should not go. So I went to another school and this school, I didn't have like the proper transfer. So I was studying there waiting because the time was gone.

So I stayed there for almost again, eight months. And then during this eight months, of course, there was exam and all about this. So I was among the student who did well, and then there was the pre-national exam. So I was among the best student who did well on some of the subject.

So I was among the student who selected to go like for the national park, like a gift because I did well during the mock exam, which is normally like the regional exam we do. So when I've been taken there, this head mistress, she was like, "No, no, this person, he will not go back to repeat the exam, or like, I'm going to make sure that he will get the proper transfer and moved."

So I got the proper transfer three months, if not two months before I do the final exam. So during this two years whole, I have been studying two combinations, and these two combination is the super combination. It is the hardest combination that doing like PCB and PCM at the same time, because the extra is biology and the extra is mathematic.So I was green lighted to do, sit for the exam of PCB, physics, chemistry, and biology two months before the final exam.

Jill James:

Wow.

Manti Michael Nota:

And imagine this time I was trying to fulfill the dream of my mom.

Jill James:

And you're studying and studying so hard.

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. So I did the exam after I completed the exam, then the result come very well. I did very well. So when I selected for the university, I asked to be selected for medical doctor, but also industrial hygiene. So of course, this combination of this industrial hygiene course it was not even well known, like I will be selected on that.

So the industrial hygiene course, it was the first to released that have been selected and followed by the medical doctor, one of the university. And this, the medical doctor university, it was in my state and the industrial hygiene course it was one of the university, 1,000 kilometer away in Dar es Salaam from my home, which was called Ariz University by that time.

So I left my home to come and join university. The time I arrived in Dar es Salaam, like 1,000 kilometer after two days, the result for the medical exam was out that have been selected to join again the medical school. So I was like, my mom calling me that you have to go back.

Jill James:

Come back home.

Manti Michael Nota:

Come back home and start the medical. Then I was like, "Mom, I cannot make it." Because I see in the cold selection of the industrial hygiene course I was among the first. We selected eight and my name was the first in the list. This impressed me this is the right place I have to go. So my mom, she was like, not happy. And up to three months she don't talk with me where like, you can call her, she's not picking the phone, only my dad who is picking.

So I was like, no, she's not picking, but my dream now I have changed from the medical doctor to become, so I just follow on the course of industrial hygiene. And that course, it was called the Bachelor of Science in Environmental Laboratory Science. Yes, that's how I come up to this university. But I left the admission for medical doctor in one of the university at home.

Jill James:

And your mom eventually started talking with you again?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. After three months, my mom started talking with me because she saw it was too late already even to go to join that course in after three months, because they normally give like two weeks to one month to confirm, that which is where are you going? Even though it made me to pay, because here we have the system of getting loan from the government. So if you don't confirm, they normally don't give you the loans. When I'm talking about the loan is the support money to the university and the school fees.

Jill James:

Sure, okay.

Manti Michael Nota:

So due to the delay of confirming which university I'm going, I was to pay almost one year, not receiving my loan. So I was surviving like that, but my friend they're receiving money and blah, blah like that, but I cannot receive money because they're saying I didn't manage to confirm early.

Jill James:

Dang!

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes.

Jill James:

So you're studying industrial hygiene and eventually you also get your master's degree. Did you do one right after the other or, and were you working at the same time or how did that go?

Manti Michael Nota:

Maybe before I go on that question, this course of Bachelor of Environmental Laboratory science and Technology, it had the background of environmental engineer and public health. So it was really designed for the doing an industrial hygiene. That's mean you go on the site, you can just do the assessment.

And then from the assessment, you can take some samples. You go to the lab, you can analyze and come and design so that you can fit in environment. And when I started learning this one, it was so interesting because I never know that as in my area, whereby I used to live is a mining area.

Many people used to die before. Sometime people used to say it's HIV and other thing, but maybe possibly it was silly causes because you see people dying with this or nature. You see people dying with the TB and like that. So anyway, because it's never been confirmed.

So I see my brothers do used to work on there, and there is a lot of dust. There is a lot of noise and like that. So when I start studying an industrial thing, I was very happy that now I can able to help my relative and my friend who are working in the mines.

So when I go back to your question, I did the four years of this bachelor. And then when I right completed, I get almost four jobs.

Jill James:

Oh, wow.

Manti Michael Nota:

It was so lucky because even before I graduated, when I'm doing my last subject, we call the project research here, they called dissertation. So I saw one of the advertisement and this advertisement, it was from the mining and I tried to apply it. And it was good because my brother is a mechanical, my brother, who I said, he used to be a footballer, he also studied mechanical. So he was study. He was working in that mining as a mechanical.

So he sent that advertisement and he even connected with me, one of the industrial hygiene like that dispositioning, can you talk to the guy? If you can like it and like that. Then I talked to the guy when I explained what I'm studying. He was like, "This is the perfect person. We are looking someone now here for almost six months, we never get somebody to replace. So maybe you send your CV and everything." So I send the CV.

So during the procedure of getting the CV, I was still completing my final exam. So I send it to apply for this job when I have only two result, first year result and second year result, I don't have even the third year result.

And then after there, after I applied, I also applied other another jobs like six, seven, but among those, I was also called for interview like five of them. And among of them, three of them, I got so three of them, I got so plus the one of mining it was like for job.

So the day I'm going to sign one of the contracting of one of the job, like it was Coca-Cola Kwanza supervisor line operator. So on the way going to sign that job, I was called with this big mining. They're saying everything is ready, when I'm ready to join the industrial hygiene work. Then I was like, "Let me check the offer and blah." But when I check the offer, it was a lot of money. So I couldn't manage.

And I went to that industry and I told them that I cannot join. Unfortunately, I got another job, so I'll be going to join. So it was good luck when they ask me when I'm ready to join, it was almost due to my graduation. So I did the graduation. After two days, I travel to the big mining and this big mining is called [inaudible] Gold mine, is a bulk, gold corporation mining.

It's among the biggest mining in Africa. It's like the second mining because it's around three kilometers down . And it's the very huge mining with thousands and thousands of people who are working around there.

Jill James:

Wow. Is this where your brother was working too?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. This is where my brother was working too.

Jill James:

And is industrial hygiene. I mean, it sounds like you had so many job offers Manti, is it because there aren't very many industrial hygienists in the area? I mean, is it sort of a rare occupation for people to choose?

Manti Michael Nota:

Actually, as I said, I'm among the pioneer of this course, I'm among the first eight people who completed this course.

Jill James:

Wow, okay.

Manti Michael Nota:

So there is no much this hygiene in this country and it's like a new thing here. So even people who are practicing like industrial hygiene, some of them, they never really got a chance to study like industrial hygiene. So they're taking like some advanced course and then become an industrial hygiene, but also not all are not registered. We are very few registered industrial hygiene here.

That's why, if you are registered with maybe [inaudible] hygiene, South Africa, or other industrial hygiene association board, you are likely to get an industrial hygiene job in easier way. Yes.

Jill James:

And what was that first job like for you at the gold mine? Yeah. And I guess, how long did you stay there before you started moving on to the next thing?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes, actually I joined this job 2012 and I left there 2016. And wow, this job was very wonderful because I joined this job whereby there is no one in the office. So the former industrial hygiene was already left it to another mother, gold mining, as I said, Barrick has like three mining, which by that time it was Bulyanhulu gold mine, Buzwagi gold mining and North Mara.

So they requested him to join another mining. Of course, they are advertised another job there. So he left. So I joined in this mining whereby the office was closed, the office of industrial hygiene was closed. So I went there and continue with where he left.

This job was really good because I get a chance to learn a lot of things. And it was really good because I joined as like an industrial hygiene, not even an industrial hygiene technician. So it was a straight to industrial hygiene position whereby I was have a chance to manage a lot of people, close to estimate maybe up to 8,000 people.

So you can see the huge people when you, plus the contractor and the mother employee of the gold mining. So it was a lot of people. It was a job whereby you can get a chance to manage a lot of, to do many thing. You can do air sample with all dusty, silica. You can do diesel particulate matter. You can all the kind of industrial hygiene practicing. You can do noise assessment.

Even up to manage the kitchen. They have used to have a very big kitchen. You can manage it to check the food if has been prepared in a good manner, is industrial hygiene, but also to manage the camp. They used to have a very big camp of almost 2000 people.

Jill James:

Where people would live at the camp?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. Where the people use-

Jill James:

... and then go to work.

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. They got to work.

Jill James:

What a big responsibility Manti?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. My responsibility it was to manage all the occupational hazard in this mining to make sure that I designed the system. I do the air monitoring. I come up with the results. I come up with the engineering solution. I follow up the implementation. I just review the police, and make sure that no one is getting sick because of the expose of any hazard from the mining.

And by then I was an industrial hygiene, but also I'm ahead of this industrial hygiene unity. So you can literally see that it was a huge job. And I was have mandate to join sometime the management meeting, whereby the general manager there and the other manager to just brief them, what is going on and, or maybe take some decision on this.

So it was a very big job, but also very busy.

Jill James:

Yeah, you got-

Manti Michael Nota:

Imagine going to underground 300 kilometers sometime two hour to three hours driving down and then coming up two to three hours also driving. Of course, they used to have a cage whereby you can go for almost 15 to 20 minutes, but as an industrial hygiene, you need to be on the workplace.

So you can, most of the time you don't use the cage, you have to pass floor by floor. You have to pass from a lamp and going down to see the environment where people are working. Probably you are supposed to pass around whereby the cage is not passing. So this was among the big job.

Jill James:

Yeah. I mean, you jumped right into the professional practice and you're learning about managing people, and you are working with the management team too. That's a lot for someone who just graduated from college.

Manti Michael Nota:

Sure. It was a lot. And then also, I got the chance to do many things. And from there, that's whereby I think to do my masters, even though the story of master also, it was a different way because when I completed my first degree, the first thing I was thinking before I work, I should do masters. So before even the result come, when they announced for the master's position the master's vacancy, I applied for it. And I was among the people who were selected to do masters.

But unfortunately the time it come, and then I even started in school like a few weeks, and then I got all this job. Then I left, I quit the masters. So I went and start school 2012 and 2014, I come back and start starting the master, but it was master by thesis. So by this time I changed the master by coursework and start doing master by thesis.

And master by thesis, you normally do research. And I was helped because I was among the people who graduated the research award. I was given like the research award. I was the winner of the final year researcher.

Jill James:

Interesting. So this didn't give me problem. And when I applied for this, they agreed. So I started my masters 2014 and I was paying from my pocket. But unfortunately when I told the my manager, by that time, he was very happy and he even sponsored me for the research. So all the analysis of the research is around more than $10,000. So they paid for it, so this was the-

Oh, wow. So you were... It was good, yeah. And so when did you move to your next job after your master's degree? Or how did that work?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. After, when I was still going on with my master degree, as I said, it was research and I returned back 2014. So by then I was like, I see one of the job 2016. And it was like very simple online. Then I say, "Let me try to apply this job." I apply in the morning and I went in mining. But it was around 7:00 in the morning, 7:00 am, when I come back around 4:00, I find they already even contacted me around 12:00.

So it was like, "We are looking for you and are you ready for the exam? Are you ready for the interview and all about that?" I say, "I'm ready." And it was so wonderful because I was even still have the overall, just coming from underground with the overall and the everything like-

Jill James:

Oh my gosh!

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. And they asked me if I'm ready for the interview, and they asked me when? I told them I'm ready, even now we can do the interview.

Jill James:

Right now.

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes, right now.

My former boss, like he was, "Can we do it right now?" I say, "Yes, we can do it right now." "So send me your Skype and oh, about this." So I sent you him. It was like a joke. "Send him in the Skype and everything." So I send him, I ask him, "Give me like 30 minutes, let me go and change the overall and everything." Then I end up going eating, but I was with the overall.

So we start Skype and like, let do maybe an introduction. And so we start doing an introduction and he start asking me some few questions immediately. It was the same day, imagine it was the same day. Then he asked me some of the several questions. Then I was like, I answered him because I was doing a lot of things and in databases. So I was, didn't even feel like I can do preparation and all about that because it was my routine team job.

So we did an interview for that day. He told me, we are just looking a person to join the team for almost six months to seven months. And, but we never lacked, we never got, we do some interview, but we end up off not finishing the interview because we are even supplies to see with someone with this CV from Africa.

And of course this person was the OKI boss, who is my former, boss currently Perry Godson, he was like saying, "We are not expecting to see someone with this strong CV working for this run. So if you are ready, let's continue the interview." So it was like an introduction of interview and some a few things question for him to verify that he's talking with the right person and about that.

Then we schedule interview. We did another interview, like 7:00 another interview, including the one, the last interview with the MSF operation advisor, who is the top person who is almost six, seven countries managing from Amsterdam. So they're like, "We are happy. You can join." Then from there. That was the journey to join another job. Yes, but it couldn't take much longer. It was around two to three weeks. Then I resigned. And then I joined the new job.

Jill James:

So, like you said, you're a pioneer in the industrial hygiene field in the region where you live. So I imagine that everybody... That jobs are plentiful. There's not a shortage. There's not a shortage for you rather finding a good fit. Yeah. So what happened next?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. After I joined OKI without water project in Nigeria, this was real good because first of all, this was my first job to be outside of the country. And it was also a very huge responsibility.

Jill James:

Go ahead. Tell us Manti, what did they want you to do in Nigeria? What were you told was the goal?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yeah, first of all, they were looking someone to do the prevention part of lead poison. And as I said, they're looking this someone for almost seven months and they never got it, and they were allowed to have me. And it was to be like a project coordinator for industrial hygiene and the same time a project coordinator for safer mining.

And this safer mining is the program of prevention, lead exposure to the minor and reducing exposure to the children. And this was very big responsibility because that was 2016 around October. And the first outbreak was already happened 2010 and almost 500 plus children were died and leave thousands of children who were exposed by I lead poison.

And by then you can live feel that there was already, like remediation was already happened and the children were recovered. But after recovered, after several years also, they went back on the program and you can really see that they were like waiting someone to take care of these people. It's like an imagination. It was like an imagination project that they're waiting one person who can able to prevent the community and make sure that they're not exposing the community. Maybe... Go ahead.

Jill James:

Manti, can you, for people who might not understand the lead, the impact of lead in a community. You took this job in Nigeria. Mining is also a very big industry in Nigeria. It sounds like, but you were talking about children and you're talking about safer mining. How does lead exposure occur to a whole family from the workers to the children like you're talking about? Can you talk about that a little bit for people who might not understand?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. As I said in Nigeria, and specifically in North Nigeria, Niger State and Zamfara, the first outbreak happened 2010 and the cause of this outbreak, it was the gold mining activities. And this is only for artisanal. It was for artisanal mining whereby the artisanal miners they go in the bush and do the mining after they do the mining, get some rocks. So they used to bring the rocks at home. And then after they bring the rocks at home, they will do all the processing at home.

I mean, the reducing size, crushing, grinding, after they finished the grinding, they will just wash. And after washing, they will to use the [inaudible] and then from the [inaudible] they will ban and get the gold. So they will bring 100,000 and 1,000 bags. But at the end, they end up maybe having very small amount of gold.

So you can literally see all this send, which was brought in this community. We are not being turning back. We are not taking back to the mining in the bush. Unfortunately this remain material was containing lead content, almost more, sometime like 10% of the amount of the bags and blah, blah like that. So you can really see that the environment we contaminated because of the remain tearing, the environmental were contaminated because of dust.

So it end up having the environmental contamination and the children who are growing up on this community. It really found that children were exposed by lead because of growing, because lead can go in the body by two methods, it can go through inhalation, but also it can go through eating. So as they're processing this mining in the dry method, you can see dusts going up to expose to the people because anyway, the process was being done in the community.

And the process has been done the community because maybe of security, because this area has security problem, or because of, they don't have water to process and they don't have the place where to process in the bush. So they bring it home. But also sometime because of the corporation of work in this area, whereby a father can bring work and the women and the children all of them has to participate.

So you can literally see that that's where they're bringing it home. So after bringing it home, they end up the children being exposed by lead as the area where they're playing is already contaminated. And it's a lot of lead, almost like 100,000 PPM of lead in the ground. This has been recorded there. And after being exposed by lead, so they contaminated so many villages, by the time 2010, the outbreak was happening almost eight villages.

And wow, everyday children were dying in reach up to 500 plus children. And because this area is a Muslim community, of course, when it happens, someone die, they can really bury in air. So sometime it's not easy to get the real statistics of the children. So this 500 plus it was an estimation of the children. Maybe they die more. Who knows because by then, by that time, MSF was not there.

MSF, used to work, doing vaccination around there, but they saw a number of many children dying in one day. They were also like, they never see this one. So they tried to check some tests for the children, but they never find that if it is malaria or another disease, but they couldn't manage, so in the hist-

Jill James:

Yeah, I just want to back up for our listeners so they can be keeping track. When you talk about MSF, people from the United States know that as doctors, without borders, just as people are following along with the story, and you were saying that no one's able to study what's happening with the children because the culturally people get, when they die, they get buried so quickly. No one had a chance to be able to figure out what was the cause of death, right?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes.

Jill James:

Yes. Okay. Thank you Manti.

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. So Doctor Without Border, of course they used to have [inaudible 00:42:06] , of course they're in Nigerian, they're in North Nigeria by that time. But with other disease cholera, this all outbreak, but also my nutrition all about that. So unfortunately they saw like children are dying, so they decide to take some sample and they come to find that it was lead poison.

So that in the time they do inform the Nigeria government and they inform the all united people, I mean, they all international people and NGO, everyone went there and they started remediation. So how it happened, why safer mining come up? Because they did remediation, which was the cleaning or the removing of sent in the area.

And this was done between the Nigeria government, with the consultants from Doctor Without Border and the other NGO like Telegraphic Foundation who were also joined. Of course, they were the lead of doing this remediation on the consultants and on ground.

So after they finished the remediation, unfortunately this was 2000 to 2013. 2014, they observe again, lead contamination. And how do they observe contamination? Of course, after they started to do remediation 2010, there are some children who were recovering very well, but 2014, the same children who were in the program and the other children who were born, were born with lead problem. And the children who were already treated early, they already coming back in the program with high blood lead level.

And you can see it was going up to more than 400. You understand, 400. This is huge to be recorded. So you can really see, they were like, oh, there is a problem. So they started thinking that to see, how can we introduce another component of preventing now the exporter. So that's whereby safer mining program come up and OKI was Occupational Knowledge International. This is us based NGO, non-profit one, come up and start looking for me to see if I can join the team.

And it was specifically to learn the program called safer mining. This was to prevent exposure of the children to prevent exposure of lead to the minor, but also make sure that we manage no more recontamination, we manage the blood level to make sure that the blood level of children is going down.

Jill James:

Right, because up until that point, it was only treatment trying to treat people or save their lives. And then you come in to try to figure out how can we stop this from happening to begin with? Yeah. So when you got there Manti to start your work, what sort of challenges were you faced with doing any kind of prevention work is difficult, but what was it like for you in this sort of setting and scenario?

Manti Michael Nota:

Yes. First of all, the challenge started area. When I was arriving in Nigeria, leaving Abuja to North Nigeria, we were having like two project, as I said, one project was in Zamfara, whereby 500 children died and plus, and one project, it was in also North Nigeria in one of the state called Niger State, whereby about 28 children died.

And this was the second outbreak because after the first outbreak, 2010, Doctor Without Boarder still struggling on the treatment, Telegraphic Foundation, they are still doing the remediation and completed. There was another outbreak which was happened 2016 in Niger state where 28 children died. So of course, MSF was already understanding about the lead poison. So they land quick and started the project there.

And of course, Doctor Without Border, because is the medical organization only for treatment, but inviting the Telegraphic Foundation, who is also US based environmental NGO for the cleanup. So when I live in Nigeria, I went straight in Niger State whereby it was a small project. First that's whereby I start implementing before I went to the big project, but you can literally see this was very remote area. 30 kilometer away from the tarmac road.

Driving from Abuja to Niger state is around eight to 10 hours. And then from the tarmac road, going inside the where the project is about 30 kilometer is no road. The land cruiser is just passing whereby he can put his own way. So, and this in this area, no network, no water. There is no electricity, is real interior. And all this area, there is no people who are speaking English. They are just speaking Hausa. And this Hausa is the north language whereby the north language, of course, I am not aware about the Hausa.

So the only people I can speak with the people who I work with each of course, maybe they're expert. I used to stay with one of my brother from Angola called Benjamin, who used to be the project coordinator of Doctor Without Border. So you can really see it, a remote area. And the first challenge that went seeing that I'm going in the bush and is the area whereby I was like, thinking, am I going this area? How am I going to work in this area?

I was a little bit quiet because 30 kilometer driving whereby there is no road. Imagine we have drive for 80 hours. And then we are living now the tarmac road driving for another, like two to three hours. And there is no road. I was quiet for almost one hour trying to think that already the challenge is starting. How am I going to live in this area is like that.

So, anyway, after I arrived there, the first it was to see if I can integrate with the community. This community is really Muslim area whereby it's difficult to even visit the house, to see if there is problem. But also these people believe that the problem of lead poison has been caused by God. So they are not aware of, or about maybe there is God or blah, blah, so they don't really agree because also they're fearing losing of job if they accept that this is the problem. And they imagine this community were depending on this.

Jill James:

So they believed the problem is God, G-O-D or gold?

Manti Michael Nota:

They believe the problem is God, G-O-D, it has been caused by God. So they brief everyone who die is because of God's time has already reached. So they are not believing about this problem. So imagining it's starting [crosstalk] this communities it was difficult.

So in this areas, I said, the project was not big in this, Niger State. So I started integrating with the community. The first thing, when I went to the community, they will start asking, "Are you coming to do mining with us? Oh, you are coming to buy gold?" I was like, "No, no, no, no. I'm not coming to by gold I'm coming for this." Then we started working with the community. It was not an easy.

So, and in this area, of course, people don't trust because many people has gone there to take some picture, to ask some questions. So they were already tired. They're thinking like everyone coming is using the problem of lead is like an opportunity to get money or do his own business. So they don't trust anybody.

Jill James:

Thank you for your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good, make you sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past in future episodes, subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you like.

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