Jill James:

Welcome back. This is the Accidental Safety Pro, brought to you by HSI. This episode is recorded August 2nd, 2023. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer. And by now you might've noticed the new logo for our podcast. I hope you're enjoying it and finding the podcast easily. My guest today is Rusty Dyals. Rusty is a CSP and a national director of EHS in the integrated facilities management industry at ESFM and joins us today from Thomasville, Georgia. Welcome to the show, Rusty.

Rusty Dyals:

Hi, Jill. Thank you so much for having me.

Jill James:

Well, I appreciate you making the time to speak with us today.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely.

Jill James:

So, yeah, Rusty, what's your origin story? How did you find this world of EHS?

Rusty Dyals:

Oh, my. It was not a direct line. It was very, very interesting road, I assure you. Actually, I grew up in Kentucky and I went to school for public relations.

Jill James:

Mm.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, went to school for public relations. When I graduated from college, we were in a slight recession in the country, and the very first thing to go and to stop hiring was communications and PR job. So I couldn't get a job.

Jill James:

That's what you thought your job would be with a public relations degree. Is that kind of what you had your site set on?

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, yes. I definitely had my site. I had done an internship during college for credits. Really enjoyed working for a PR firm, but as I said, just when I graduated, there were just no PR job... No entry level, I should say, entry-level PR jobs or communications jobs to be had. So I relocated to live with my sister in North Carolina. She owned her own company doing environmental agricultural consulting.

Jill James:

Wow.

Rusty Dyals:

So yeah, I helped out with her while I was still looking for a job because that was a temporary fix, and I was still looking for some type of position and kind of getting myself integrated in her community down in North Carolina. One of the deacons of the local church that we went to approached me and said that he would like me to interview for a safety position, safety job.

Jill James:

Well, I mean, that's super unusual. I thought you were going to say the local manufacturing company or something, but, oh, no, it's the church. Okay.

Rusty Dyals:

Well, funny enough, it was for the manufacturing, the local manufacturing. It was for a sawmill.

Jill James:

Really?

Rusty Dyals:

Yes. But I didn't know that. I only knew him as the deacon of our church. So it took a little bit to figure out that, yes, he actually was the plant manager for the local sawmill.

Jill James:

Oh, interesting.

Rusty Dyals:

And wanted me to interview for a environment, health, and safety coordinated position for a sawmill.

Jill James:

I mean, did he ever tell you what he saw in you to say, was it, "She has a pulse and I have a job," or what did he see in you?

Rusty Dyals:

In hindsight, I probably think that was the case.

Jill James:

Uh.huh.

Rusty Dyals:

But during the interview process, I interviewed with several people and I ended up with him, and I did ask that question because I had no idea why he thought I would work for this. Funny enough, his response always stuck with me through the years, was he said, "Rusty, I kind of got to know you a little bit through church." He said, "I do know that you have a degree in public relations." And he said, "That's the piece I can't teach." He said, "I can teach you the OSHA regulations and the EPA regulations and the technical side of the job, but I can't teach you how to deal with people." He said, "I can't teach you the soft skills that are needed for a safety job because the majority of what safety professionals do is some way interact with people, interact with the associates, interact with agencies, interact with management or executive leadership or whoever it might be." He said that was the part that he couldn't teach, and that was the part that my education prepared me for. He just said, "I think you do a really good job." So I did for four years.

Jill James:

I mean, what a way to step into the work. I mean, the sawmill industry is not for the faint of heart.

Rusty Dyals:

It's not. It's not. I will tell you that I received one of those hard educations at that facility, good education, but it was very much drinking through a fire hose almost immediately. They had applied for North Carolina's Voluntary Protection Program, and I kid you not, I think it was my first week there that we got the call from the OSHA inspector going, "Hey, we're going to be there for your preliminary inspection in a week."

Jill James:

Oh gosh. Wow. So they're like, "Show me your program for this. Show me your program for that?" You're like, "What?"

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, yes, and it was exactly that. I was getting a crash course and turned out the OSHA inspector for this program, he was an old sawmiller and just was, I mean, honestly, such a sweet human being, and took me under his wing knowing that I was brand new to the field. He's like, "You know what? You just hang out with me. Let them answer. Let your boss and everybody else answer all the questions. You hang out with me and learn what all this is supposed to be about."

Jill James:

Oh, wow. What a wonderful opportunity to learn.

Rusty Dyals:

It was it, it was. So it was a three-day inspection, and I hung out with the inspectors, and it was a preliminary, so basically what they were doing was going through and evaluating the site, talking to the associates, and then coming back and making the recommendation to management of whether or not they should go through with the official inspection. They made recommendations, "Before you go through the official inspection, you should get these X, Y, Z things done first." And they did. They made the recommendation, "We think you should do these two or three things and go ahead and schedule for maybe a month or two out the official inspection," and so we did.

Jill James:

Oh, my gosh. And did they end up getting the VPP status?

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, yes. We were the first sawmill in North Carolina to have the North Carolina Star, which is what they call their VPP.

Jill James:

Wow.

Rusty Dyals:

Yeah.

Jill James:

Well, congratulations. I mean, what a way to start your career.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, thank you.

Jill James:

I mean, set the bar high, right?

Rusty Dyals:

Really.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man.

Rusty Dyals:

We really did. We really did. Then we recertified three years later, right before actually I left the company, and unfortunately the original OSHA inspector had retired, so I didn't get to see him again. But it was a great experience.

Jill James:

You and I have a little bit of similarities in that regard. I mean, my sawmill story isn't as lovely as yours. In fact, it's not lovely at all. But when I was with OSHA, the very first fatality investigation I ever did was at a sawmill.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes. Yes. I can only imagine how bad that was.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah. So I have a very vivid picture in my mind of sawmills and what that was like at the time. Wow, what a great way for you as a professional to learn hazard recognition skills too. I mean, because, gosh, sawmills, that's unforgiving.

Rusty Dyals:

It is. It is. It was definitely a great place to start the career because it was the extreme with all the different hazards and just trying to understand quickly control of zero energy, hazards energy, and all of the moving parts in that facility. Then it was a union facility.

Jill James:

Oh, wow. Interesting.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, and getting to learn firsthand a union facility and what union relations are like. Again, I got lucky with, we had one of the best unions and union presences that I've ever worked with since. They believed in safety, and they were all very committed to the different programs, what we're trying to do.

Jill James:

You got to see firsthand through the VPP process, what the connection between government and unions and the employer is like as well?

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, yes. I sat in, again, during that preliminary; they let me sit in on one or two of the conversations with the associates, with the permission of the associate, of course, again, just to see what that's like. Yes, it was very eyeopening, again, especially when you're three or four weeks into this job, trying to understand, "What it is I'm supposed to be doing?" Hearing the union president and a couple of the other associates employees talk about the commitment that the sawmill leadership had and the things that they had done through the years to support them. I mean, it was amazing.

Jill James:

Wow. That is really a great story. For anyone who's listening and thinking, "Gosh, I don't know very much about unions, or I haven't worked in a union shop, what is Jill talking about with seeing the dynamics between the government, the unions, and the employer?" In the world of OSHA, the union representatives, the union itself, has the same rights as the employer in the eyes of OSHA. So they have access to the same inspection processes, same information. They get copies of everything, get to be part of OSHA proceedings if they want to be. So if someone doesn't know what that connection is, it's there. So, Rusty, you're at the sawmill, for, what did you say? Three years.

Rusty Dyals:

Four years?

Jill James:

Four years. Okay. So what happens next after that time?

Rusty Dyals:

So after four years, I wasn't sure if I wanted to say, stay in safety. It had been a very interesting, again, four years, but I wasn't sure if that's what I wanted to do. So I actually left the company and moved away from North Carolina and originally went to work for a employee temporary agency company. It didn't last very long, because I quickly realized that, "No, this isn't what I want to do either."

Jill James:

Was it in safety again, working for the temp agency or something else?

Rusty Dyals:

No, it was actually just being a recruiter for a temp agency.

Jill James:

Got it. Okay.

Rusty Dyals:

It was, again, as I said, a very brief stint, and I went right back into safety.

Jill James:

Where did you go? Where did you go?

Rusty Dyals:

So that position, I was actually a corporate director for a small company. They were a commercial tire company in the Midwest. So I worked there for just a year and then went back to sawmills back in the south and went back to sawmills for a year and a half, and then eventually landed in consulting for about four years. I bounced around there for a little bit. Again, not really sure what I wanted to do, but I kept finding my way back to safety, and I kept finding fulfillment within the EHS field. Every time I tried to ease out of it, I wasn't just filled. It always felt like I wasn't getting to help people. Really-

Jill James:

Yeah. Was that the fulfillment piece being able to help people? Yeah.

Rusty Dyals:

It was, it was, and it took me a bit to realize that, but that's really what it was. I enjoy trying to help people, trying to solve problems, trying to help people solve their own problems, just I don't always enjoy the negative side of safety, as we all know. I mean, sometimes you have to help people by giving them hard conversations or in some cases enforcing disciplinary action and even letting associates go because of violations. I hate that piece of it, but at the same time, I accept it because it's the right thing to do. I am still helping the associate in that, getting them to leave the company where they can't follow safety rules and they might get hurt, just ultimately that's a good thing for them.

Jill James:

Yeah. Right.

Rusty Dyals:

So yeah, so I came back. I keep coming back, keep staying in safety, and it really is about, as I said, helping people and not just associates, I enjoy helping management. I help senior leadership tie in the vision of what they think safety should be, what it is.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah. Talk more about that. I mean, that's the holy grail of our practice. I mean, everybody talks about it. It's in every article, it's at every conference about explaining our work to management and then also leading with them.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. Yes. I have found throughout your entire career in the safety profession, regardless of where you're at level-wise or job title-wise, you're always doing a little bit of that. But at my current position, I feel like I've done more of it. I'm tied in more with that senior leadership in this national director's position. I have found where in this position I'm working more with that vision of, "This is where the company has been." The company that I work for, ESFM, we're in integrative facilities management, it has growing by leaps and bounds. Integrated facilities management is a growing field in the first place, and then our company is leading the charge with that growth as a company as well. So I have done a lot of work recently with trying to talk to different leaders within the company and seeing what their vision is and helping explain to them, "This is where we're at. It's not that we don't have a bad safety program. We do actually have a very good safety program, but there are gaps with every... I mean, even with the best safety programs, you're going to have gaps." So we've done a lot of working with senior leaderships to identify that, talk to them about what they want the vision to be, and sometimes help them figure that out because especially with leadership that doesn't have or hasn't dealt in that realm, or been exposed to the safety field very much, they don't always know what a good program looks like or what good looks like or what great looks like, right?

Jill James:

Yeah, or what even the pieces that are part of it.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely, absolutely. So I've got to have those conversations and sometimes and with some conversations get very granular to explain it. That's okay because at the end of the day, I think all senior leadership, people in general, people in general, want to do the right thing. It's not always an easy conversation because again, we're trying to run a business. So sometimes there's that competing priorities, but sitting down and having those conversations, I think is just the first step of trying to figure out, "What works best for this company, what works best for this team, what works best for this facility?"

Jill James:

That's a really beautiful way to talk about it as a vision. I love that. I love that. To be able to sit with different leaders and ask, I mean, do you ask that simple question to start with, Rusty? Like, "What is your vision of a healthy and safe workplace look like?" I mean, is that kind of where you start?

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, depending on who that leader is, what I know about that person. Yeah, some of the questions are very basic, and, "What do you know about safety? What do you think safety is? Where do you think we are? What do you think your vision should be, or what do you want it to be?" You just have to start with those easy and simple questions to get a feel for what that person is looking for, what they even think, because there might be a piece of it for you as a safety professional that has to be education. You won't know that until you ask those questions.

Jill James:

Yeah, and I imagine that each person you speak with maybe has some different drivers in their head. I'm guessing that maybe some people want to know more data sort of things.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes.

Jill James:

Like, "Tell me about what we're experiencing. Tell me our injuries. Tell me what others like us are like?" Others might be more along the lines of, "Well, let's talk about the human beings and how they act day-to-day or other drivers."

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. I heard once in a communications course that I took internally with the company; the person teaching the class said that the majority of us are either visual thinkers or analytical thinkers. So for me, I'm a visual thinker. If you're explaining something to me, explaining concept, I want you to paint me a picture. But analytical thinkers, they want that data. They say, "Give me a graph, give me rates." They don't put pictures in their head. Everything is very much just thinking through those concepts. So we have to figure out what's the communication style of the person you're speaking to or who you're trying to influence, or who you're trying to get influence. That's where you begin.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's really beautiful. What a great takeaway for our listeners is to ask about that vision. I love that. So, Rusty, you've been in the industry over 20 years now. What other industries have you worked in? What sort of things did you pick up on as a young professional?

Rusty Dyals:

So yes, I have been in the field for 20 plus years now. I worked in obviously sawmills. I did consulting for a while in the automotive and utilities. I worked in the semiconductor industry with a company. I worked in a pulp mill. So along the lines with that sawmill, most sawmills are somehow connected to pulp mills as well. Then I found myself with my current company, ESFM, which is in integrated facilities management, which is very similar, but different from what all my previous experience was.

Jill James:

Yeah. You mentioned that integrated facilities management is a growing field. For anyone who's not familiar with really what that type of industry is or does. Do you want to explain it a bit?

Rusty Dyals:

Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. So when I first applied for this job, I had to get my new boss to explain it to me as well because-

Jill James:

Uh-huh.

Rusty Dyals:

So some companies out there have internal facilities management, facilities maintenance departments within their companies. Really, what facilities management is, it's the group that takes care of the building, takes care of the infrastructure of the site, while all the other associates, all the other departments focus on making the product that the business makes, right?

Jill James:

Got it.

Rusty Dyals:

So if you're in a pharmaceutical company, the primary business is making drugs, but then there's a whole department that's got to maintain the building and the grounds that those drugs are being made in. So integrated facilities management is just the entire service lines, I would probably call it. All the various service lines that make up maintaining a facility. So that could be roof work, it could be... Okay, I'm going to have to stop again. My dog is whining in the background.

Jill James:

I think we're okay to say and acknowledge for anyone who's hearing a little bit of whining in the background right now, Rusty has a Basset Hound who is going to be hurt today. Rusty, quickly, before we keep talking about integrated facilities management, what's the name of the Basset Hound?

Rusty Dyals:

The Basset Hound's name is Zoe.

Jill James:

Oh, Zoe.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, and she's a little upset that I'm not paying attention to her.

Jill James:

Sorry, Zoe. Zoe's vision is not to be distracted, wants all of the attention on her. Oh, man.

Rusty Dyals:

Okay.

Jill James:

All right. Yes. So, please continue.

Rusty Dyals:

Okay. Okay. So integrated facilities management is the different, I would say, departments or service lines that take care of the building or the grounds. So we've got roof work taking care of the actual building itself. So there's roof work. There's windows cleaning, replacements.

Jill James:

HVAC systems.

Rusty Dyals:

HVAC systems.

Jill James:

Okay.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. Boilers, chillers. Then there's janitorial services, light maintenance, replacing ceiling tiles, landscaping, all of those things. All of those different lines make up integrated facilities management.

Jill James:

Sure. So you have employees within your company that go into other organizations to do this work?

Rusty Dyals:

Correct. Correct.

Jill James:

Got it.

Rusty Dyals:

So facilities management, some people call it outsourcing, but it's been around for a very long time. It has its origins in Europe, who does Europe. Our company has presence in Europe and it's a lot more frequently done over there, and so it's a growing industry in the US. A lot of our clients are pharmaceutical companies. We do have some automotive companies. We do have, our particular sector focuses on manufacturing. So we do have a lot of business in the US and it's growing. It's becoming more and more and more companies are realizing that, "You know what? We don't want to focus on that. We want to subcontract that to these other companies and then we want to focus on our business." What frequently happens is they pick a company such as ourself, ESFM, and either we self-perform the services or we subcontract those out. So, for example, we're not going to replace a roof, but we would be that general contractor that subcontracts them out. Then sometimes it depends, depending on the location, we can hire somebody or we can subcontract a job out cheaper than we can do it ourselves. So we just do what's best for the client from a cost savings perspective, and it's just a combination of either self-performing the business or we're subcontracting it out and managing the contracts.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like a really great way for you and your team, if you want to talk about the people that you work with, because you mentioned you're... Did you say you're the national leader? Yeah, national director.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes.

Jill James:

Yeah, and so you must have a team of people you work with. What I'm thinking as I'm hearing this is that what a great way for other EHS professionals to learn a lot about a lot of different kinds of industry. I mean, you said you have some niches, but manufacturing itself, you get to see a lot of things.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. Yes, we do. We do. It's been a very interesting journey for me because as I said, I didn't know what facilities management was when I first applied for the job. I remember thinking that first interview going, "Wow, that sounds really cool to work and learn about all these different manufacturers and different things, industries." So yes, the team that I work with, so I don't have any direct reports, even though I'm a national director, I don't have any direct reports. I have a whole bunch of indirect reports. So a lot of our larger accounts, our larger clients will have their own EHS manager or director working specifically for them. It all depends on just the hazards associated with it and the amount of associates that are going to be on an account. Then I provide guidance and resource to all the different safety professionals in our organization, and we also get together frequently when we can to share best practices also across industries. So what works in, say, automotive manufacturing, may work in pharmaceutical or vice versa. So we do try to get together and do some best practice sharing where we can with that, doesn't always work. We've got oil and gas where a lot of things, a lot of the more restrictive safety policies come from. Doesn't always work with some of the other industries, but we always try to have those conversations about it.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah, and speaking of getting together, you and many of the people on your team got together at ASSP 2023 in San Antonio not too long ago, and I got to meet some of your team, and many of them agreed to be part of this podcast. So if anybody wants to go and listen to episode 106, it's where 20 different EHS professionals from across so many different industries just took time to share a couple of bits of wisdom, and a number of those people were from Rusty's team. So thank you for that, Rusty. It was really great to hear from the people that you work with.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. It was a very fun time. They had such a good time. We didn't get to have everybody with us, but we did take a good portion of our group and everyone enjoyed it. Everyone enjoyed the conference as well as getting to talk to you as well.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah. That was so fun. You've worked in so many different types of industries, Rusty, including where you're at now, where you're having so much exposure. I know when we've spoken before, you talk about considering yourself a generalist, which is what I consider myself, too. Can you talk about what that means to you and how you arrived at that?

Rusty Dyals:

Of course. So for me, I think each industry that I worked in, I think perhaps at the time that I worked, I might've thought that I spent more time on a particular topic. But that being said, at the end of the day, through all the different companies and all the different industries, I really was always focused on overall hazard recognition, just the basics, the fundamentals, hazard recognition, making sure that we have those rules set forth, whether policies or programs and employee engagement and getting the associates involved, but never diving so deep into any particular topic to say, "I'm an expert in lockout tagout, or I'm an expert in confined space entry or hazard communications," and any of the many, many topics out there. Again, I feel like I can talk to and answer a little bit on every subject, jack of all trades, master of none, so to speak.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Same. Mm-hmm.

Rusty Dyals:

But at the same time, I would never come out and say, "No, no. I'm an expert in that."

Jill James:

Right, right. Yeah. Like, "PSM is my thing. I know PSM. Yeah. I don't."

Rusty Dyals:

Yeah.

Jill James:

Yeah, I mean, that's what keeps it fun, I mean. Some people listening are saying like, "Oh, I am an expert in a particular area," and that's awesome because we need them.

Rusty Dyals:

Agreed.

Jill James:

We also need people who know a little bit about a lot of things.

Rusty Dyals:

Yeah. Agreed.

Jill James:

Yeah, because that is our work.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes. Yes. I mean, I have relied upon experts through the years, and I'm so thankful for them. I completely agree. I'm so glad they're there and we need them. But at the same time, just working in the industry that I have, it was much more important that I knew where to go look and get the information for any number of topics. I think a lot of professionals out there are that way. I think some of the bigger companies have the ability to have some of those experts, but I think smaller companies or those sites that only have one or two EHS people, they don't have that luxury to focus on really one particular topic.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so thinking back to the number of years you've been at this, and like you said, you came into it with a public relations degree. What have you learned along the way? How did you learn some things? How did you pick stuff up? Did you pursue different types of education along the way and conferences or courses, or how did you do that?

Rusty Dyals:

Yes, all of the above.

Jill James:

Okay. Mm-hmm.

Rusty Dyals:

So, early on, I went to the OSHA, the trainer courses, some of the local universities were doing-

Jill James:

The OSHA Training Institutes.

Rusty Dyals:

Exactly, yes.

Jill James:

Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Rusty Dyals:

I took some courses with them, and then from there, I just, every year was taking something. Some of the companies that I worked for had internal safety conferences where they would put on topics that are obviously more relevant to the company. So I learned internally, but I was also almost always taking some type of external course, and I will admit that it was a few years into it. I was a few years into my career before I got involved with ASSP, and also before I looked into becoming a certified safety professional.

Jill James:

Yeah. Yeah.

Rusty Dyals:

I completely admit early on with the certified safety professional, I was doing it because I didn't have an education or a background in... I'm sorry, not background, but in education, in safety, I felt that kind of limited me. So I was looking at the certified safety professional more as a validation for my resume and getting that additional-

Jill James:

Like, "Hey, I know a little something."

Rusty Dyals:

Exactly. Exactly.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm, [inaudible 00:32:21], and you do Rusty. Mm-hmm.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. But honestly, once I actually researched it and went after it, I realized the certified safety professional was so much more than just that, so much more than just validation. Even though that is a big piece of it, it opens up so many more doors. Being a part of ASSP is the same way, it becomes a network, not only of professionals you can reach out to beyond just that education portion that most people look at initially for. Then that opens up the network. Then the conferences, as you mentioned earlier about us all being at the ASSP conference, those annual conferences are just a wealth of knowledge, and it was one of the reasons why I wanted to bring members of the team to it, because some of them are new in their careers, and they've only ever worked in safety on this one account. This is their only experience. So being able to meet other safety professionals, being able to be exposed to the wide variety of what the safety profession is at those conferences, I just think is just invaluable.

Jill James:

Yeah, I do too. It's really fun. It was so fun to listen to that podcast recording after speaking with 20 people. I'm like, "Wow." Just being able to hear all these voices in the same recording, like, "I'm in this industry and I'm in that industry, and I've had this responsibility. I started out in this, but then this happened." Yeah, it was exactly what you said, extremely validating.

Rusty Dyals:

Oh, yes.

Jill James:

Yeah. Starting out when you did, when we spoke earlier, you talked about what it was like being the only female on a management team, particularly as a young person. What sort of things would you like to share about that and/or advice for people now?

Rusty Dyals:

So, yes, I was the youngest female and only female on the management team of that first sawmill, and actually on the next sawmill that I worked at as well. See, that first position, I was 24, and I think, yes, the next oldest was 40. Yes, I think around that time are around those age ranges, but it was again, just a huge learning experience for me to interact. Sawmills, paper mills, heck, the safety profession is still a male-dominated profession.

Jill James:

It's still. Mm-hmm.

Rusty Dyals:

Improved, I mean, exponentially since even 20 years ago, but it still is predominantly males, but especially in the sawmills, it was. Again, I was lucky with the amazing group of people that I got to work with, and they taught me about business. They taught me about the interaction of safety in business and the importance of, "Yes, we have absolute rules to follow from a safety perspective. There are things that we have to do." Going into those conversations with my counterparts, with an open mind and trying to work with them to find a solution as opposed to trying to prescribe that solution made the conversation and got the buy-in that was typically needed to enact that solution. That was vital for me to learn to be, again, communicate and being open-minded. It made everything go so much smoother. I think that would be probably my biggest advice for anyone coming into the safety profession.

Jill James:

Yeah. Not to prescribe. Mm-hmm.

Rusty Dyals:

Exactly. Exactly. Have those conversations, every conversation. Be over communicate, but be open to those conversations and trying to figure out a solution together, because those solutions are almost always going to be implemented more successfully most of the time than anything that you would try to come up with by yourself or prescribe.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes complete sense. That's how I've practiced as well. I mean, especially when you're not the expert in a particular work area, a process, a project, the person who does the job for 8 or 10 hours a day knows the work in a way that you never will.

Rusty Dyals:

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Jill James:

Yeah, and being able to have that conversation like, "Okay, I've identified this, this and this as what I see as risks. Tell me about that, and then how can we mitigate around it?" Or however that conversation goes, but to do it in community with people.

Rusty Dyals:

That's a good word right there, community, because that facility or that company that you work for, it is a community, and just trying to have those conversations and get those buy-ins, it's going to make the process go so much smoother. Whenever I do any type of electrical training, it never fails. I have an electrician or several electricians in the course, and I always start the training with-

Jill James:

Yeah. "I'm not an electrician."

Rusty Dyals:

"I'm not an electrician and I'm not an expert. So if we have any very specific questions, I am going to call on my experts sitting in this row over here to help me answer, because quite frankly, to me, electricity is magic. I don't understand it. It's magical."

Jill James:

Uh-huh. "It's deadly. It's magical."

Rusty Dyals:

Exactly.

Jill James:

"Amazed every time I flip a switch."

Rusty Dyals:

Exactly. Exactly. That typically always chuckle all the electricians, and also makes them a little bit more likely to pipe up and answer questions when I absolutely don't know the answer on something.

Jill James:

Yeah. To use them as a help aid. That makes sense.

Rusty Dyals:

[inaudible 00:38:46]. Yeah.

Jill James:

That makes sense. Yeah. Rusty, [inaudible 00:38:51] turn here.

Rusty Dyals:

Okay.

Jill James:

I have this in my notes about what you learned about buying a new car as an EHS professional. Tell us about that. I mean, we've talked about visioning. We've talked about being in community with people. What can you school us on about buying a new car when you're an EHS professional?

Rusty Dyals:

So think long and hard before you do that.

Jill James:

And we're not talking about interest rates right now.

Rusty Dyals:

No, we're not. We're not. So early on in my career, and now things are a little bit different in the safety field as they were, again, 20 years ago, and we all recognize that.

Jill James:

True. Yeah.

Rusty Dyals:

But 20 years ago, it was common for us to have some type of accident injury and put that injured person directly into our vehicle, especially depending on where we were, depending on the work location, because it could, it's quicker for us to drive them to the hospital versus to get an ambulance out there.

Jill James:

Sure. I mean, it sounds like you worked in pretty rural locations at the start of your career.

Rusty Dyals:

I did. I did. So as you can imagine, what happened is I went out and bought a brand new car. Now, it wasn't brand spanking new, but it was very new, and it was obviously new to me, but it was fairly new. As you can imagine, we had an accident, an associates amputated their finger, and thankfully we knew where it was. We were able to put the finger on ice and wrap the associates in some towels, their hand in some towels. Then, of course, I proceeded to not thinking, not giving a second thought, put them into my new vehicle, and go take them to the hospital.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oops.

Rusty Dyals:

Thankfully, the associate was fine. Let's start at the end of the story with that, the associate was thankfully fine. They were able to successfully reattach that particular finger that sat in ice in my lap on that drive.

Jill James:

Yeah. The things that we do in our work life. Yes.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. Needless to say, my new car didn't survive that. I had remnants of that very friendly, wonderful associate for the rest of the time that I own that vehicle, in my car.

Jill James:

As a constant reminder of the work that we do and has.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. Absolutely. In that situation, again, myself and the associate, we didn't think anything about it, but after the fact, it was like, "Oh, God, Rusty, your car." He's like, "Just let me know. I'll try to wash it." I'm like, "Stop. You're not going to wash my car."

Jill James:

It's all good.

Rusty Dyals:

"It's all good. It's all good. I'll worry about that later. Let's worry about your finger."

Jill James:

Oh, man. Yeah, I mean, so yes, the safety spills over into our home life, by extension, your car in this case. I know that you had mentioned that your spouse is, I think, in manufacturing or something. Does safety come up in your home life at home, or how does that work for you?

Rusty Dyals:

Yes. Yes. Our dinner conversation is very work-related. He is a operations manager for wood products, so he got his start in sawmill as well, which is where we met. He's progressed over to engineered wood products and plywood and stuff. But as a leader, his responsibility of safety, he has safety managers that work for him. So frequently, yes, our conversations are, "Hey, we've got this situation going on at work, what would you do? How would you handle this?" And vice versa. I'll ask him questions about monetary bill... Not billing, budgeting, and, "How do companies do this?" So he gives me that operations perspective. So, yeah, it's always an interesting conversation, especially when friends that don't work in manufacturing come over.

Jill James:

You have your own language.

Rusty Dyals:

We do. We do. We have to stop and go, "Do we have other stuff to talk about?"

Jill James:

Well, I mean, this is wonderful. I mean, anybody who's listening to this, who's maybe starting out in their career and you're like, "Wait a minute, what about operations?" I mean, operations is an integral piece of the work that we do. Sometimes operation owns safety, as in Rusty's just saying that her husband has people who report to him in the safety role. Sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes operation just gets it dumped on them because there isn't an actual safety person. Then, oftentimes, those of us in the EHS field end up partnering with operations because of what Rusty just said. They have budget, and we don't often have budget.

Rusty Dyals:

Yes. Yes. Budgets for safety are sometimes an oxymoron depending on the company.

Jill James:

Right. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Rusty Dyals:

But they always figure it out. Even if we don't have a budget per se, most companies always get it figured out.

Jill James:

Yeah. Well, home improvement projects around your house must be pretty interesting between the two of you.

Rusty Dyals:

It is. It is. He wants to do it very precisely, and I'm just worried about, "Do we have the proper PPE? Do you have fall protection on to be on the roof?"

Jill James:

Oh, it's so true. It's so true.

Rusty Dyals:

Contractors do not like us at our house.

Jill James:

I'm sure they don't. You're asking for proof of their insurance.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely.

Jill James:

Uh-huh. "I want to see documented proof of this." That's wonderful. Oh, man. What a good run. Yeah. Rusty, when you think about your career today, what sort of advice do you have for people in the work right now?

Rusty Dyals:

Probably my biggest piece of advice is always keep your chin up. In our field, we are not always people's favorite people. Sometimes we are. That's the great thing. It's sometimes 50/50.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. That's absolutely true. Especially when things aren't going sideways we're everybody's hero.

Rusty Dyals:

Exactly. Exactly. But it's oftentimes a thankless job. People call for help. You give them the help, and then when you need help, they maybe forget that you helped them previously. We're in the background a lot of times as safety professionals, I think. But more than anything, I would tell people to keep their chin up and to remember that they are helping people. You're making your company; you're making the people you work around better. You're improving your slice of the world. With every accident, that you prevent, every injury that you prevent, you're improving somebody's life. I think that's one of the biggest things for safety professionals. We do have a large section, or not a large, but we do have safety burnout. Our profession does have a piece of that burnout picture in it where... It's exactly due to what I just said. Sometimes we don't get the recognition or we don't see what we do. It's not even outward recognition. We don't give ourselves the recognition that we deserve and seeing on how we're helping. So I think that more than anything is forgive yourself for the mistakes that you make and keep your chin up and realize that you are helping. You're helping others, and you're improving your company, and you're improving the people that you work with. You're improving their lives as well.

Jill James:

Beautifully said, beautifully said. Rusty, thank you so much for coming on the podcast to share your story. Wonderful, wonderful bits of learning for our listeners today. Thank you so you so much.

Rusty Dyals:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure talking to you, and this was a great experience for me. I appreciate it.

Jill James:

Thanks to Zoe as well for joining in our first Basset Hound on the podcast. Yeah. Thank you all for spending your time listening today, and more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good, making sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you [inaudible 00:48:03]. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more health and safety professionals like Rusty and I. Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer, and until next time, thanks for listening.