126: Transforming EHS Professionals into Strategic Business Partners

Jill James:

This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode is recorded January 23rd, 2025. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer. Today, our guest is Subena Colligan. Subena is a certified industrial hygienist, a certified safety professional, and is the principal consultant at EHS Transformation Consultants. She's also an Air Force veteran. Subena has dedicated her career to thought leadership in advancing the EHS profession, and she joins us today from Atlanta. Welcome back to the show, Subena.

Subena Colligan:

Thank you for having me back, Jill.

Jill James:

Yeah. Subena, for anyone who might not remember, was a guest on the show back in 2022. If you want to look it up, it's Episode 90, if you'd like to hear Subena's full origin story and how she accidentally found her way into this profession. But how about, Subena, we start with a little update? Since 2022, what has changed for you?

Subena Colligan:

Well, I think this is perfect specifically for this episode, Jill, because the landscape of our responsibilities are shifting and a foundation, even from our 2022 episode to today, was really around strategy and influence, and how can we meet our business partners, which is a lot of the time where we work, where they are. From 2022 to 2025, it seems like just yesterday we were here.

Jill James:

Doesn't it?

Subena Colligan:

We have rebranded, so went from S Colligan Coaching, where it was myself doing leadership and executive coaching for EHS directors and above, to now an environmental health and safety consulting firm, EHS Transformation Consultants. Now, we are focused on improving and meeting companies where they are to develop world-class EHS programs.

Jill James:

Congratulations.

Subena Colligan:

Thank you. Yes. There's a team now. We've been working with these multi-billion dollar manufacturers. We have a signature program that is audit, strategize, resolve, where it just encompasses everything that our EHS programs need in order to build that world-class program out for them.

Jill James:

Fantastic. Subena, you've dedicated your career to the service of the EHS profession. Obviously, including what you're doing with your consulting firm and the way that you've grown it. What are some of those strategies that you're teaching EHS professionals now to best support their organizations, including their leadership teams?

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely. What I introduce and lead with is that we need to be business partners. We need to understand business outcomes, and that allows us to effectively manage risk. We can only manage risk if we understand the risk tolerance of the organization and leaders in that organization. One thing that has also changed in the couple of years is that now I am actually a part of the teaching team at the Harvard Chan School of Public Health. They have the management and leadership skills for EHS professionals.

Jill James:

Wow.

Subena Colligan:

Yes. Thank you.

Jill James:

Wow, congratulations. Oh my gosh.

Subena Colligan:

Thank you. This course has been around for over 20 years. Some of the best of the best in the industry have laid their foundation there. We talk about negotiation. Specifically, I talk about awareness, self-awareness, and understanding ourselves so that we can navigate in that corporate function. It doesn't just have to be corporate. It's any function of your life, you need to have self-awareness. I have self-awareness at home. You have to have self-awareness at the gym, and you also really needed to create great influence around you.

Jill James:

Yeah. Well, with life, it's an inside job, right? We start with ourselves first, figuring out what your north star is, and being present so that we can be those influencers for the business outcomes that you're talking about.

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely.

Jill James:

Yeah. Subena, will you shout out the program at Harvard one more time, if people are not familiar with it, if they want to read about it?

Subena Colligan:

Yes, so it is at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and the name of the course is Management and Leadership Skills for EHS Professionals. They do this course twice a year. In March, they do it in person. In September, they do it online. I highly recommend, if you have the opportunity, to do that in person, but leaders from around the world are here. I think the last time we did this course we had folks from United Arab Emirates over to California. It's just such a dynamic mix. There are folks from nonprofit organizations that have EHS professionals, up to our Fortune 500, 100 companies as well.

Jill James:

Yeah. Wow. Subena, I'm thinking, for our conversation today, you just mentioned business outcomes and supporting the EHS professionals in how they can have those conversations about business outcomes. Let's have that conversation. You just talked about people figuring out where they stand and who they are. Do you want to talk about some principles that you coach on for that too, or where would you like to start today?

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely, so we can start at the top and then work our way down.

Jill James:

Yeah. Okay. Perfect.

Subena Colligan:

I think it's important to understand why you need to know who you are, but you have to know what you're up against. That's where we, I talked about this audit, strategize, resolve, because it applies to self as much as it applies to business outcome, right? It's that same principle. What I love about it, and when you know something works, is when you can apply it everywhere. Having an understanding, I'll take the example of when we come into an organization, most of the time we are working with operational leaders. That's a difference for what many EHS professionals are taking a look at, and other firms as well have the opportunity to do. We have these chief supply chain officers, vice president of operations, these folks that say, "We've got to do something different to build, build on whatever it is that they are desiring." One thing that we do is get an understanding of who they are and where the organization wants to go. When you know where you want to go, you actually have a purpose for collecting data. That's an important place to stop because we will go out collect information, and then you're like, "Well, what the heck do I do with this?" Then, maybe you needed to collect different information, but because you just blindly went in and collected information-

Jill James:

Without knowing where you're going.

Subena Colligan:

...without knowing where you're going, and you're like, "Oh, well, what do I do with all of this?" You can make something of it for sure, or maybe not, but you have to know why you're collecting information. The other side of that, Jill, is when you are collecting information, you have to have the willingness to go do something about it, which is why it's so important to be intentional about the data that you're collecting. Because if I ask the question, I had better be ready to do something about it. If not, then we've wasted people's time.

Jill James:

I was just thinking about how you set up the types of leaders in an organization that you're meeting with, I'm suspecting alongside EHS leaders, so you're asking C-team, where are you going or where do you want to be?

Subena Colligan:

Yes.

Jill James:

You're gathering data that is in support of getting to that destination. Can you share a few examples of some of the data that you've been gathering? Understanding it's not the same for every organization, but just so people can get an idea of some of the things you're gathering.

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely. We take a holistic look at the safety management system, environmental management system. But some of the data that we are looking at consistently across the board are roles, responsibilities, accountabilities, and authorities. That is so important to understand. We want to know how this organization is functioning and where the silos are showing up, or where the collaboration is, where those really shining stars are and opportunities to really thrive given the correct resources. We also take a look at regulatory requirements. That is a foundation to a functioning environmental health and safety program, but then we're looking at the stakeholders along the edges as well. That can be contractors, procurement, our regulatory authorities, especially if they have some influence on maybe coming on site and taking samples, right? Like, how are they perceiving these operations? Really just a holistic view. When we say in support of, just because we're looking at the goals and the objectives of that C-suite, it doesn't mean that we aren't being honest with what their gaps are. That support is also fact and truth in what they need to know in order to make the decisions that need to be made, and whether or not their ideal is realistic.

Jill James:

I'm wondering how when you're... so you've gathered the data. I'm guessing is the next step that you're presenting your results, like, here are the gaps and here are suggestions for making modifications.

Subena Colligan:

Yeah. We present the gaps, right? Now, we have information and we have an idea of what the landscape is, but we still can have, we can create anything that we want, which is absolutely beautiful. There's tons of studies out there that we lean on. One of them is the Ernst & Young EHS Maturity Model.

Jill James:

Yeah, teach us about that. Yeah.

Subena Colligan:

Yeah, so this EHS Maturity Model, and so for folks that may not know, Ernst & Young is one of the top four consulting firms around the globe. They started off working with taxes, and now, they are embedded throughout governments, Fortune 100s, everywhere. They have their fingers in everything. What they identified is that there is this advantage that mature EHS programs can have, and that advantage is that a mature EHS program, compared to the average performing EHS program, is about 16% in revenue. Could you imagine going to your leadership and saying, "I can get you a 16% advantage in revenue over a competitor because of this program."

Jill James:

That's a business outcome that every C-suite wants to hear.

Subena Colligan:

That is a business outcome that is measurable, right? That is not always how EHS is seen. It's this overhead and it gets this negativity that comes along with regulation. On the other side of that, we primarily work with manufacturers, right? The National Association of Manufacturing put out a study that said regulation in general can cost up to $50,000 per employee on a business, right? A 1200-employee organization paying $50,000 a person just in regulation, that doesn't feel positive to the financial group, right?

Jill James:

That's going to make everyone start to twitch.

Subena Colligan:

It makes everyone twitch, and so how do we leverage these positive findings that say, "Yes, there are costs involved, however, we can increase revenue by multiple percentages, by 16% even." Now, this burden has become an advantage, and that's those business outcomes and that partnership that we have to lean into, because sometimes that is not the business outcome that is prevalent. We have to know what is there and what's going to influence. Sometimes companies are just in a growth stage or research and development stage, and they're not prioritizing. I don't know any business that truly isn't prioritizing profits, but sometimes they're not. That's not what's driving them. What's driving them is getting ahead of the competition with product or moving into a new sector where they're expecting to be below on their profit margins. Understanding exactly where they are and who to influence to provide that benefit is so important.

Jill James:

As I'm listening, Subena, I'm thinking you're talking about the manufacturing sector that you're working with right now and how you've... because you've been invited in to help them already. You have a unique situation having access to that C-suite to be able to ask those questions about where they're headed and what those goals and objectives are for business outcomes. If you're an EHS leader who's listening to this right now and thinking, "I understand what Subena is saying, I don't know how to gain access." Or, "What should I say to be able to knock on the door and say, 'Hey, I can help you increase your business outcome by 16%.' But I don't really have a path to the C-suite." What could you recommend for people who are listening to try to wedge themselves in? What would be a strategy to start?

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely. There's different ways. When I started my career, and Jill, hopefully I'm not going too far back, but when I started my career, I sat in on meetings that I didn't necessarily get invited to. In the Air Force, we had a conference table in this open space and then we had cubicles. My cubicle was, my back was facing the conference table. I would just, ear hustle is what I would call it, and listen.

Jill James:

Ear hustle. Okay, got it.

Subena Colligan:

I would ear hustle, eavesdropping is probably the correct way of saying that. Then, eventually, I asked the question, well, can I just sit in on the meeting, be a fly on the wall? Understand what's happening there. Cause no disturbances, ask no questions. I just want to absorb. That turned into just staying. When I moved into the corporate world we would have these meetings that EHS was invited to with the operational team, and then there was a meeting immediately preceding, because goodness knows it's hard to get on everyone's schedule. I would just sit in on those meetings because my counterparts didn't leave, and so I didn't either. I actually got called out by the executive assistant for our VP. She said, "Well, you know you're not on that meeting invite, right?" I was like, "Well, nobody else left, so I figured I should have been there." But she said, "That's fine, you can just continue to stay." But then taking those insights and setting up time after the meeting, that's when the real stuff is happening, the meeting after the meeting. Having that conversation afterward and asking someone like, "Hey, can you help me understand this a little bit more?" They understand that you want to learn, that you are open and curious. You're not there to create strife, because we just want the path of least resistance at most causes. Building on that relationship and then allowing that person, that adjacent relationship to continue opening the door, and it takes time. It takes consistency. It takes showing up in places that maybe you don't have an actual need to be there. But when you understand the business and you have those conversations and you can build that trust, you start to move through in a different way. Showing up at the meeting that talks about the challenges and the production outcome, and being able to come back and say, "Hey, there's this challenge that we're having from EHS, but we're going to wait until we get over this production hurdle, because I know that this is a challenge for you right now, and that's your priority." That little bit of trust, not saying, I don't care that production is your job and that's how you get paid, but this is my problem, so you have to go solve my problem too. But saying, we can manage this risk for this short period of time, and then once we get past this production struggle, we'll come back and address this, it shows care and builds that trust. It starts to open doors for you and create sponsorship that you need to get to those levels of leadership that are making decisions.

Jill James:

Beautiful, beautiful. Leading with curiosity is what you're talking about, Subena, and saying I... rather than coming in on the approach of, we need to do house on fire, all of these things, regulatory, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's more of, I'm curious about how I can support the overall mission of this company in ways in which are going to get us all to the place that we want to be. Yeah, I want to understand how can I help our business. What are the business outcomes you want to see? I want to be able to be a helper to you in that way. Yeah, that's beautiful.

Subena Colligan:

Yes.

Jill James:

Fantastic. Yeah, so that's one of the ways that we can influence things. Yeah. You've talked about auditing in companies, I suspect we've been talking about strategy right now. Do you want to talk more about strategizing?

Subena Colligan:

Sure. Just one last piece on strategy that I think is so important. The piece that we often miss is what we call a pre-mortem. When I was training on strategy, I trained at McKinsey & Company. McKinsey & Company is that company that comes in when the house is on fire. Think Peloton, the great products, love the Peloton product, love the instructors and the things. But the business was absolutely sinking. For context, the stock prices went up like, I don't know, maybe a hundred dollars a share during the pandemic, and then took a very steep turn. They're on their fifth CEO. I think at this point they have like co-CEOs. There's a lot happening on the business side. This is the company that is the in-house consultant for about 80 of the 100 Fortune 100s out there. Top of the list when it comes to those consulting firms. One of their activities that they utilize is called a pre-mortem. That pre-mortem is analyzing everything that could go wrong and making the strategy come to life, and performing a risk assessment on that. Identifying what the gaps are, what we would do, how do we identify it if it shows up, or accepting that risk. I think a lot of times we come up with this great plan, but we don't identify how that plan could fail. I think it's another testament, even to my business. I started the business, this is great, I love what I'm doing. But looking at the different ways that it could fail in the future and saying, "Okay, if these things show up, then we've got to go make an adjustment." 18 months in those things started to show up and saying, "Okay, so we can make an adjustment now." Another one of those adjustments was planning for political landscapes. Ray Dalio has an incredible book called Changing World Order, and looking at what is going on just around the world and adjusting to what's happening as well. The regulatory landscape is undoubtedly shifting over the next few years. It doesn't matter which way or the other, it's just about adjusting to the reality and dealing with the truth of the matter.

Jill James:

In a global and local perspective, I assume, is what Ray talks about.

Subena Colligan:

Yes, global and local. He definitely emphasizes that global, but you can see it locally, and the things that you just miss over time. That pre-mortem is so important to do to plan for that, and every organization needs that in their strategy

Jill James:

And in your own personal life. You said pre-mortem, and immediately I thought worst-case scenario planning, like I am a worst-case scenario planner in all things, but pre-mortem is a really nicer way to say that.

Subena Colligan:

What's interesting is I am an absolute optimist, Jill.

Jill James:

I know you are, Subena.

Subena Colligan:

I think everything is possible. When people are like, "Well, that's not going to work." I'm like, "Probably will though." When you are that extreme optimist, then it's hard to really live in that pre-mortem and say that something could fail, but we have to be realistic. You talked about that happening in your personal life as well. There's a gentleman, I don't know his name, he is the founder of Cava, the Mediterranean Bowl, it's like the Chipotle of Mediterranean food. I think he founded Panera as well. That is something that he said, there's a Wall Street Journal article about him, and Tim Paz, an incredible certified industrial hygienist, shared that on LinkedIn a few weeks ago. He, in that Wall Street Journal article, talks about performing a pre-mortem on his own life and his goals, and how it's made him into the success that he is today. Like I said, when you have something that works in different modalities around, that's how you know it works. It's not a silo. It can be applied everywhere in life.

Jill James:

Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful, and it helps us achieve balance, right? Balance in our personal lives, balance in our business lives. That is what we're seeking.

Subena Colligan:

Yes, absolutely. Harmony.

Jill James:

Yeah, harmony.

Subena Colligan:

Yes, because not everything will be balanced. Sometimes your family life needs that solo. I think about some of the greatest performers out there and they always have a section of give the drummer something, or a guitar solo, or they stop singing and they're dancing the entire time, or they're allowing the crowd to sing. Then, there's times where everyone is just humming at the same rhythm. Yeah, and so if we approach our lives in that same harmony and just embrace that each time it's beautiful, it lessens some of that stress as well.

Jill James:

Beautiful. You talked about your model audit, strategize, resolve, do you want to talk about the resolve phase?

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely. In the resolve phase, one part of strategy is identifying the resources necessary to be successful. In resolve though, we have to be, again, realistic, truthful with ourselves. When you are making an organizational change, a transformation specifically, we know that there is about an 18-month timeframe before change can really be seen. There's a few things that we have to do in that space. Let me take a step back because I just threw a stat out there or information out. McKinsey & Company is fantastic with strategy. What we know is that from the beginning of a transformation, that there is about a 32% loss in transformation without a specific plan and resources assigned. You could lose 32% of your progress without having that middle part of strategy and resources assigned. I think another part, this is just my personal belief, is if you don't have that pre-mortem, you don't have reality baked into it, and you're just that optimist, and this is what we're going to go do, without realizing the truth of the matter, you lose some of that as well. There's plenty of times where we hear that flavor of the month program.

Jill James:

Yes, and we're going to figure it out as we go, but we're going to get to this thing and we'll move forward with this percentage of what we think is right, but we're going there.

Subena Colligan:

We're just going for it. We're throwing the spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. That's what we're losing. We're losing all the spaghetti that does not stick. In the resolve phase is where we're looking for those resources. Sometimes that resource is us. We can come in, we can do the training, we can build the program. Other times it's finding that trusted partner that can get the work done fairly quickly. That's the electrical engineer for an arc flash assessment, or a mechanical engineer that needs to redesign machine safeguards. Things that we can't do. But then, there's this other piece of our quick wins, because 18 months is a really long time. To keep people motivated for that amount of time is just so difficult. We have our 30, 60, 180-day wins where in that audit phase we identified some of those key teams, those highly motivated people, and even the people that just need a win. Oh my gosh.

Jill James:

That's so true, right? It's so true. If you're trying to head somewhere and you know it's going to take 18 months to steer that ship, we absolutely, as human beings doing the weeds of the work need to be able to celebrate along the way.

Subena Colligan:

Exactly. Then, you have the outliers of folks, right? You have the people that have seen the flavor of the month, they've heard the hoorah story, and they're just not bought in. You have to earn their trust, you have to earn their energy to invest in this time. Back to that earlier example where we just throw something out there and we expect that people are going to do it because the business said, go do it. Well, there's still a reluctance, and we still have a responsibility to align meaning to the work that we do, and to earn that energy and commitment because sometimes it means that we have to go above and beyond. If I get paid the same to do status quo, then why am I being put in the space to do above and beyond for the same?

Jill James:

Then, why would I do it?

Subena Colligan:

Why would I do it? We really take that into consideration as well. When I say holistic, it is an entire holistic process to understand just so many dynamics to make a transformation successful.

Jill James:

Subena, what have you seen for organizations that embrace the idea of the 30, 60, 180-day wins? How are they celebrating or rewarding? What does that look like to motivate the people to keep going? What things have you seen employers do successfully that helps with that?

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely. It depends on what those motivators are for different individuals. For one of our clients, we made the recommendation to submit them for NSC award because they were already there with not having injuries, so to get that public recognition out there. For some, it's just that little bit. We have one where he was like the third or fourth general manager. He wanted to prove himself that he could be the one that was successful. He was our recommendation for the 30-day win, and to really get him motivated. His team was so excited. Just the recognition from corporate where they had this microscope on them and everything they did in their operation, and they were the black sheep, the not doing so great. Everything that came down was just bad, bad, bad. But then they had this win and it was an EHS, and then it was like, "Hey, great job. Look at what you're doing." Then, all of a sudden there was a spark across the board in management where they finally felt seen. But you have to get to know the DNA and what's motivating. The five, it's four, but the five love languages of workplace appreciation. Is it tangibles? Is it quality time in the workplace? That quality time either means quality time with leadership, quality time, like give me time off, please. How do we influence those different places and different people? Different regions are different, so you have to be very mindful in understanding and intentional for those different folks.

Jill James:

Repeat those. What did you say? Five love languages in business? I'm familiar in interpersonal relationships, but yeah, explain that if you would.

Subena Colligan:

Yeah, so it's the five love languages of workplace appreciation. It's actually the same author, and they did a study on workplace appreciation. You have tangibles, that's gifts. Then, you have quality time. That quality time can be either time with leadership, because sometimes that's important. But then that quality time can also be, I just need time off. Words of affirmation, either verbal or written. You have to understand how people are, because like me, I'm very much so put it in a card, give it to me, let me read it by myself later.

Jill James:

Yes.

Subena Colligan:

Acts of service.

Jill James:

Yes.

Subena Colligan:

Because I don't want you to see my reaction. Acts of service. Those are folks they don't crave praise. They're just like, take something off of my plate. That's all I need. But then, you have to know the people because if they enjoy, or they could perceive acts of service as a way of saying that you're not performing.

Jill James:

Exactly. Like, let me help you do that, you're not good enough. Yeah, I understand.

Subena Colligan:

Yeah, so you can't do that. Then, the last love language is physical touch, which that's probably a no-no, but there are some folks that just enjoy a hug. You have to be very careful not to touch anybody that doesn't want to be touched. There's nothing in between that. But sometimes people just, they like a pat on the back, that is their-

Jill James:

The high five piece of-

Subena Colligan:

The high five. Yes. I think that one is the touchier one in the workplace, so that's why I said it's five, but really four because I don't lean into physical touch at all. But for sure gifts, acts of service, quality time, and words of affirmation.

Jill James:

Yeah, I'm thinking about myself and I know words of affirmation both in personal and work life. That's my number one, and likely number two I think is quality time. Not time away from work, but quality time at a decision-making table.

Subena Colligan:

Oh my gosh, right? Being trusted in that space. But it can show up in so many ways. You can take a walk. You can have a walking meeting and just getting out of the office, or taking people for lunch. Those are some of the places that we lean into when it comes to how we reward those quick wins and then getting that buy-in as well. Sometimes we lean into that appreciation language for those folks that were just struggling with. Really sitting down, listening, understanding what is it that we can do in figuring out ways to get them on board with that transformation. It takes time, 18 months to see change, three months for it to fully take effect. It's a long time to commit.

Jill James:

It sure is. It sure is, and you need people with staying power, people who have that commitment to being that motivating force and to project manage that enthusiasm for that time.

Subena Colligan:

Yes. It takes a lot.

Jill James:

You can hear me turning my pages of my notebook probably. I'm thinking about, okay, so audit, strategize, resolve. Do you want to talk a little bit more about the resolution phase? Does that mean after the 18 months, or is that the process?

Subena Colligan:

That is a part of that 18-month process.

Jill James:

Okay, got you, wat we've been talking about. Okay.

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely. One of those things that we... it's the check and act stage of the plan to check act, for context. We're popping in about every six months as well doing audits, nothing major, but just checking in on the status of implementation of the strategy and making adjustments as necessary. Like I said, there is a definitive relationship even within my business to show... you have to adjust to the landscape around you. We talked a little bit about, there's a lot that's going to happen and AI has come in and absolutely disrupted every industry that you could imagine. The regulatory landscape is changing. We will likely see more mergers and acquisitions show up. You'll see these global companies grow even larger, even open source, which is Chat GPT. Chat GPT has a $500 billion project with the US government. It's a nonprofit. There's so much happening, and so we have to continually be able to adapt. Keep things simple, but we have to be able to meet our organizations, meet the landscape they are navigating where they are. In the cases where they want and need that competitive advantage, we are providing mature EHS programs to meet that competitive advantage.

Jill James:

Yeah. Subena, when we talked prior to recording, we had a little conversation I'm wondering if we can expand on. As things are changing at a rapid pace that for many of us may seem dizzying, upsetting, maybe it adds enthusiasm as well, but change nonetheless, it comes in all sorts of ways. You had mentioned to me really having any of us sit back and ask, what are the things that are still in my control?

Subena Colligan:

Oh, for sure.

Jill James:

Yeah. Can you expand on that? If someone is going to do that, what I would tend to call navel gazing, talking about looking within. What might be some of those prompts for anyone who's listening and thinking, oh, my gosh, things are just... I don't know what to do right now. Like, rapid change, or I'm afraid about this regulatory landscape changing. Or, my God, my company just acquired a company in a country that I don't know anything about.

Subena Colligan:

Oh, for sure. There's a few things here. Going back to the basics, that is, how do you keep yourself grounded and where are you on your self-awareness journey? We're going back to the beginning of the conversation, because you're the only person that you can control. You can't control the chief supply chain officer. You can't control anyone on the board of directors. You can't control your stakeholders. All you can do is influence them. You can control yourself. You understand how you choose to respond. There's a difference between reaction and response. Reaction can be combustible. Like something happens and you just react. Then, you have the response where you're able to take a second, see what's moving. Is my heart rate getting a little bit faster? Is this one I typically like to throw out some explicitives? Or, I get afraid and I am turning inward and shutting myself off from the world. Then, choose how you want to respond. You can say, "I'm going to lean in at this time." Or, "I'm going to choose not to speak at all because it will help with my self-control." That is the place. The other place that you can control to an extent in the workplace are your programs and your integrity. It's important, especially on the ethical side and the integrity of your programs. You can't control how an organization chooses to accept risk. What you can control is the information that they receive and the risk that they are accepting. You can release some of that responsibility as well. There was a time in my career where we had these three pillars in our organization and we couldn't get the manpower to get them done effectively and within compliance. I took it to the vice president of the organization and he would happen to be my boss. I said, "Listen, not my risk to accept. Here you go. This is the risk. This is what we're accepting." He said, "No, no, no, no, no. That's not my risk to accept. That's the senior vice president's risk to accept."

Jill James:

The one time that things go uphill instead of down. Okay.

Subena Colligan:

Exactly. But sometimes though, because we are owners and we have that ownership model, we say, "Hey, this is mine." You can influence, but you can't change regulatory policy. You just have to know the things that you can accept and the wisdom to know the difference of the things that will just drive you mad.

Jill James:

That's right. That's right. Amen to that.

Subena Colligan:

Right back to-

Jill James:

Right back to where we started.

Subena Colligan:

...emotional intelligence.

Jill James:

Yeah. You've said things in such a more beautiful way than... You're talking about this and I'm thinking, "Okay, so knowing your line in the sand." I've had that same conversation with leaders as well. I know my ethics, I know my north star. Here's my line in the sand. We've now crossed into this other territory.

Subena Colligan:

Yes.

Jill James:

So, here we are.

Subena Colligan:

I think though too, Jill, what's so important is for us to truly be global citizens, to really lean into information. You said there's so much happening. It can be dizzying, right?

Jill James:

Yes.

Subena Colligan:

What's important is to understand what is changing out there and how you can stay ahead of it. How do you capture a skill that's going to be necessary regardless? If you are eyeing those large corporations that are prime for global operations, then how do you make yourself more attractive to that space? How do you start networking and building relationships? Those are also things that you can control to give yourself more power. What's important is that you feel that you have power where you are. If that's capturing a certification that makes you better off, if that's paying down debt, because we don't get away from our financial health and our power as well to say, "Okay, now I'm in more of a prime position to have more liquidity. If something were to happen, it doesn't put me underneath." It's all of those things that create power around you to make decisions for yourself versus someone else making decisions on your behalf.

Jill James:

It's doing the pre-mortem that you're talking about.

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely.

Jill James:

Yeah, and identifying where those gaps are and shoring up your own personal self as a professional. Yeah. That's beautiful, Subena, beautiful. As we close our time today, and I'm so grateful for you coming here, especially in the time and place that we're at, in 2025, with rapid changes happening around us globally, I think this is just such a beautiful, grounding, helpful message. Are there closing thoughts that you have, Subena?

Subena Colligan:

Absolutely. We control our own destinies. There is an absolute power in knowing where you are in time and space and knowing that you always have the ability to lead yourself and influence others. That's where we are with, whether it's our program, our consulting firms, or our personal lives. I'm always here to motivate and be the hype person for folks in EHS. I absolutely love this profession. I would love to connect with anyone that is listening to this podcast. If we're not connected on LinkedIn already, please find me, send a message. I would love to have a conversation or at least know that we are in each other's network and learn from you. But also, hopefully you're able to have the chance to learn from me as well.

Jill James:

Beautiful. Subena, so grateful for you and your contribution toward our profession. Thank you so much for being here.

Subena Colligan:

Thank you, Jill. Thank you for having me again.

Jill James:

You're welcome. Thank you all for spending your time listening today, and more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. May our employees and those we influence know that our profession cares deeply about human wellbeing, which is the core of our practice. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like. Or, if you prefer, you can read the transcript of each episode and listen at hsi.com. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more health and safety professionals like Subena and I. Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer, and until next time, thanks for listening.