Jill James:

This is the Accidental Safety Pro, brought to you by HSI. This episode was recorded September 23rd, 2022. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer, and today my guest is Dolores Salman. Dolores is a certified safety professional, the head of Global EHS at a tech, media, and entertainment company. She is the past president of the ASSP Los Angeles chapter, and currently serves on the board for the Make-A-Wish Foundation. She has dedicated her efforts to leadership, mentorship of emerging safety professionals, and the elevation of the environmental health and safety industry. Dolores is joining us today from her home in Orange County, California. Welcome to the show.

Dolores Salman:

Thank you so much, Jill. Thank you for having me.

Jill James:

Well, it is great to have you here. And earlier this week, you and I actually had the opportunity to meet in person at the National Safety Congress and Expo, which is pretty unique that I get to actually meet a podcast guest in real life, so thank you for that.

Dolores Salman:

Yes, what a pleasant surprise.

Jill James:

It really was. So, Dolores, your work history and how this wild world got started, and gosh, I want to make sure that I come back to Make-A-Wish, because I'm interested to hear about that too. But your EHS journey, how did things start for you?

Dolores Salman:

Oh my goodness. I love the topic of the Accidental Safety Pro, because it resonates with me. Everyone always asks the same question, "So how did you end up doing this? How did you end up in safety?" I could tell you that my mom tells people that I am an environmentalist, still has no idea what I do, and my dad said I used to be a director at Fox or at my current company, and I have family members that think I'm in movies and television and all the glitz and glamor, which is far from the truth.

Jill James:

Because you work for a tech and media entertainment company, so everyone makes an assumption. Okay.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So I think my path is funny. I don't come from a risk averse family. I think I have a very probably normal upbringing. I'm Filipino American, first generation. My mother came from the Philippines in '69, and my dad in '71. And I think we had a very traditional first generation American upbringing, hardworking parents really trying to find their way in America and really just trying to really just survive here in the United States. I think my first bout with safety, per se, came in college. I was a college student. I did not know what I wanted to do. I was a first year undeclared. And my whole life I've danced Polynesian dancing, so the islands of Hawaii, Tahiti, Samoa, New Zealand.

Jill James:

Wow.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah.

Jill James:

Yeah. This is not normal safety nerdom so far.

Dolores Salman:

Well, that makes me a little proud.

Jill James:

That's good.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So Jill, again, I've been a dancer since I was 10, 12. And when I moved to Southern California from Northern California, I joined a dance troop here. And we were doing a backyard retirement party, and we were ready to go on stage. The fire knife dancer completed his number, put out the fire in the sand, and as he walked by the dancers, I took two or three steps back, and we're ready to go on, and then we're looking out at the audience, and there's just so much. There's ooing and ahing, and just people are gasping. And I'm like, "Wow, this group, this retirement party, they are ready for us. They are ready for us to be on stage." And it turns out, Jill, that my skirt caught on fire.

Jill James:

Oh my gosh.

Dolores Salman:

Yes. So, as you know, the materials, they're not fire retardant, they're not treated. They're very dry, natural grass materials, and my skirt, it just burst into flames. And thankfully, one of the drummers in our group, he was the fire chief for the city of Huntington Beach, and he immediately came and ripped my skirt off. And I was, yes, still partially on stage, so that's another story for us to have the mortification there, but he proceeded to essentially stomp on the skirt, and obviously the fire went out and I exited stage right, and it was a huge near miss.

Jill James:

Oh my gosh. Were you burned, Dolores?

Dolores Salman:

No, I was not burned. But after reading about these incidents, they are actually very common. Again, the materials are very dry. They are not treated. And there have been cases of dancers who have burns on three quarters of their bodies, and it could have been really, really bad for me.

Jill James:

Oh my gosh. I mean, this just goes to show that every occupation... People often ask, "Well, that doesn't sound like a very dangerous occupation." Yes, absolutely. Every occupation has its risks. And now anyone who thinks they're going to a cool luau that's just going to be light and fun... Oh my gosh. Yeah. Safety people's eyes get wrecked for everything.

Dolores Salman:

Yes. No job hazard analysis or risk assessment for that activity. But it opened my eyes into obviously fire, life, safety, and risk. Yeah. It was scary. Very, very scary. A great story at the end, but it was scary. And so, after that, I was really interested in safety. I was more cautious and looked out for additional risks, but I also loved the environment and environmental science, so I found this major at UC Irvine that was just a wonderful cross school major called applied ecology, and the year after I switched into applied ecology.

Jill James:

Well, interesting. Yeah. Okay. So that's interesting. How do you go from ecology to EHS? I mean, I can see the trajectory there, with the environment especially.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So, again, undergraduate degree, the major was joint between the School of Biological Sciences and the School of Social Ecology, so I took a ton of G- chem, O-chem, physics, all biocore, and then when it came to upper division I took environmental psychology, limnology, water quality, indoor air quality. And I guess, I don't know if I should go into my dentist phase of my life.

Jill James:

Well, I think so now that you've mentioned it. I mean, we've been dancing, we've been hard into the sciences. Holy cats, yeah.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So I was focused really on the environmental side, did a lot of environmental research. I actually worked in a lab. We were studying the effects of smoke and nicotine in rats' brains. And at the time, I had a close friend, and he was in dental school and orthodontic school, and he goes, "What are you going to do with this environmental degree? What are you going to do with this?" And I had other friends who were also applying to dental school, and I decided to pivot. I said, "Hey, let's take a look at dentistry." So I started volunteering at a local dental bus, the USC dental bus that was offering cleaning and dental instruction to the underprivileged communities in LA and surrounding areas. I really went full force into it. I studied for the DAT. To make a long story short, I did make it into dental school.

Jill James:

Congratulations.

Dolores Salman:

Thank you. And the summer that I was ready to go and move, my dad called me and he said, "Ugh. I don't know about this dentist thing. I saw you on stage." I was commencement speaker for the School of Social Ecology at UC Irvine. He said, "I saw you on stage, and it was a great speech. And I just don't think you should be in people's mouths all day, and you could be the Filipino Barbara Walters. You could be the Filipino Barbara Walters." Still to this day, I don't know what that means. I wish I could ask my dad. He passed a couple years ago, but I actually took that to heart and I didn't pursue dental school.

Jill James:

Mm. He saw something in you. He didn't quite know exactly how to articulate it other than Barbara Walters. That's fantastic.

Dolores Salman:

Well, Barbara Walters.

Jill James:

Barbara Walters, Yeah.

Dolores Salman:

Oh, Jill. So after that, I did sales and marketing in real estate for a couple of years, because real estate was obviously in its boom in 2005, 2006.

Jill James:

Lucrative. Mm-hmm.

Dolores Salman:

Very lucrative. And then in 2007, I said, "Okay, that's not going to pay the bills any longer." And I started working for EORM as a technician doing primarily environmental work, so a lot of stormwater permitting, SWPS. I mean, just entry level EHS technical work. So it was a really interesting transition into the field.

Jill James:

From real estate to that. I can imagine.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So I started my career as a consultant, and again, started on the environmental side. I spent several years as an industrial hygiene pump jockey. I did lots of air monitoring, both area and personal monitoring for oil and gas companies, manufacturing, pharma. Yeah. Just semiconductor. So the very traditional EHS.

Jill James:

Yeah. I mean, when you were first describing your educational background, I thought, "Oh, she's definitely headed down an IH route," and it sounds like you found it eventually.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So started very, very heavy environmental and IH, and then it just evolved into safety. So I say I'm a generalist. I think I'm pretty dangerous in environmental health, safety, and sustainability. I've consulted on all facets and different capacities for several multinational companies and organizations globally.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's fantastic. And being able to say you're a generalist, I say the same thing about myself, and I used to feel bad about that. I used to think, "Gosh, maybe I should specialize in something, because there are so many areas you could dive so deeply into in our profession." And then I've just decided you know what? I like learning a lot about a lot of different things. It keeps the work exciting. What do you think?

Dolores Salman:

I agree. I think I approached it with wanting to learn everything that I possibly could. So anytime my manager had time to look at a matrix of expertise and different areas of focus, I just was always raising my hand, "Yeah, I want to do that. I want to learn about that." I'm a lifelong learner, and I guess I don't mind being called a generality either.

Jill James:

Yeah. I think it's a good fit. I think it's a good fit for those of us who really like the challenge of learning new things all the time. Yeah. So Dolores, it sounds like you did a lot of work as a consultant, you said, for a long time. When did that first EHS job come your way? I know you mentioned Fox a little while ago. Was that the first, or were there others before that?

Dolores Salman:

Yes. So I was a consultant for close to 10 years, and Fox Sports was actually one of my named accounts. And the firm that I was at conducted EHS and sustainability audits for all of the sporting stadiums across the US. Yeah, that was a terrible, terrible project. Not fun at all. Not fun at all.

Jill James:

In terms of a lot of travel, or what?

Dolores Salman:

No, it was an incredible project to manage. Yeah. I mean, talk about winning that project and getting on a team call and saying, "Okay, who wants to go to Texas to audit?" Oh my gosh, I don't even know the team names, but, "Who wants to audit the MLB stadiums, and who wants to go to an NFL game, and who wants to go to a basketball NBA game and essentially get into the guts of the stadium and be on the floor?" Yeah. Everybody signed up for that project.

Jill James:

Everybody wanted it. Oh my gosh. I'm just thinking what it must be like for you to attend a sporting event or any event in a stadium right now. I mean, I have not seen the inner workings or the guts behind it. I just know as a health and safety professional, I'm doing minimal life safety things with whoever I'm with. "Okay, identify the exits. Here's our gathering point. Here's our secondary gathering point if something goes wrong." But you have to take this to a whole nother level.

Dolores Salman:

Yes. The approach and the risks were not for the general audience, because obviously safety and stadium design, they take that into consideration very early. This risk identification and mitigation, they were basically for the broadcasters and the folks in camera positions, whether they are on the sideline or working from heights, access to ladders. So they were protecting the cast and crew who were working on behalf of Fox Sports and the other broadcasting networks. Yeah.

Jill James:

Well, that's a pretty unique position for an EHS professional.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So it was wonderful. I really enjoyed working with the Fox team. The project ended, but shortly after that, my former boss, John Moore, the VP at Fox, called me and said, "Hey, I have this position that's opening up. It's more on the television side and has to do with television production safety." And at that point in my career, I had done some work for several of the studios in LA and Burbank, and so I knew enough about the studio world to be dangerous. I had not worked on a physical production, but I had worked lots of events and event EHS and event oversight, and obviously the sports piece ties into that as well. And I actually politely declined because I live in Orange County. The commute from Orange County to LA is dreadful and soul killing, and I also said, "I don't know if I'm your person. I don't watch very much TV. I'm not a film buff."

Jill James:

Might not be very exciting, for you.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. I'm not a TV and film person. And John Moore just laughed and he said, "You're hired."

Jill James:

Oh, they wanted someone who wasn't going to be starstruck who could actually get to the work.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So he gave me a couple of days to think about it and I accepted. And I was there for close to five years overseeing television production, National Geographic licensed, and shows, and also special events and creative services group. So that was a really fun time.

Jill James:

So Dolores, when it comes to hazards and hazard mitigation in that industry, how is it different, or is it really not? I mean, you had, like you said, 10 years of consulting experience behind you, meaning you'd been in lots of different types of work environments. You'd seen a lot of things by then. Was there a similar thread, or were there things that you were dealing with you were like, "Gosh, no one would ever deal with these kind of hazards anywhere else?"

Dolores Salman:

Yeah, I think if you're a risk professional and you understand hazard identification and how to mitigate risk, it's essentially what we do day to day as EHS professionals. I think the challenging thing in media and entertainment is that when you're not familiar with the vernacular and you're not necessarily speaking the same language, it could be challenging to gain the trust of cast and crew and gain their partnership, right? So I don't necessarily think the difficulty is in the job and how we mitigate and identify risks. The difficulty and the challenges are in the relationships, because it is extremely nepotistic. And at the same time, there's not a lot of confidence if you haven't worked on a production your whole life, right?

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. You don't have any street cred walking in.

Dolores Salman:

Exactly. So the street cred piece, and really gaining trust. So, don't get me wrong, I loved my job there, but it was extremely challenging to break into the industry and gain trust and confidence.

Jill James:

Yeah. And how did you do that? I mean, I'm sure it's many a million different pieces, but what are some of the things that you remember that worked for you?

Dolores Salman:

Yeah, so it was phone a friend. So my first 30 days there, I really tried to understand the business, right? So who are the key players? Who are the key partners? What groups do you need to work with? There's so many different positions on a production, and you have to navigate which groups and which departments actually have the highest risk on a production, but also what are their pain points, right? So I spent a lot of time just really understanding the workflows, operations, key pain points, top five hazards, spending time with workers comp to look at where the incidents and injuries were occurring, and then also I did some benchmarking with external peers, right? So I met with other studios to learn more about their programs, what was working, what wasn't working. So it was a lot of data gathering at that point, too, before I could really frame up what a best in class program should look like, EHS, for television production. So it was a lot of learning and really understanding the business before diving in.

Jill James:

That's really great advice for anyone in any career. From what you were doing there to... Dolores, I haven't told you this about myself, but I worked for a period of time in the poultry industry, specifically turkeys. And getting street cred there is no different than what you're talking about, it's just I did things that you wouldn't necessarily think you'd be doing with inseminating turkeys. But you need to figure out what it is, and the employees that are doing the work, and what their pressures and forces on their bodies are, and what those hazards and risks are. And you only do it by digging in. So yeah, that's beautiful. So at that time when you were there, were you a solo operator? Were you directing a team, or how does that work?

Dolores Salman:

Oh, I managed a team. Yeah. Can't do that alone.

Jill James:

I can't imagine.

Dolores Salman:

We were very lean, and so it was a team plus contractors and freelancers, but yeah.

Jill James:

Hm. Was that the first time you had managed people, or did you have experience in that before?

Dolores Salman:

I had managed, not directly, but as a consultant, when you have large contracts and projects, obviously there's team members that you have to manage and...

Jill James:

Yeah. Interact with.

Dolores Salman:

Yes.

Jill James:

Yeah. So you stayed there for how many years?

Dolores Salman:

I think it was close to four or five years.

Jill James:

And what happened with the soul crushing commute?

Dolores Salman:

I still have a soul crushing commute. Well, it's quite funny because I remember driving home one day, and gosh, I think I had the two and a half hour mark, and it was because there were all of these fires up and down the freeway here in California. And I told myself, "I do not want know why I'm doing this. I love my job, but after this I will never accept another job in LA." And here I am.

Jill James:

You did it again.

Dolores Salman:

And I did it again. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment. But yes, I work at another company with headquarters in LA.

Jill James:

Oh, sounds like you need a driver. I had mentioned actually in the introduction that you're the past president of ASSP Los Angeles chapter, and I think you also have worked with emerging safety professionals as well?

Dolores Salman:

Yes.

Jill James:

Yeah. Do you want to talk about that, what that piece is like for you?

Dolores Salman:

Yes, absolutely. I mean, the industry has been incredible. Yes, I slang safety every day and it's not easy to always just constantly be selling the importance of health and safety. It's exhausting. But on the same token, I am so grateful for the industry and my job. My husband is a physician, and I tell him, "You know, I get people home safely every day as well, and I'm saving lives too." So, I just-

Jill James:

Indeed.

Dolores Salman:

Yes. And so I just love EHS and the industry, and I just have so much gratitude for what it has given to me personally and professionally. And I think we're at a time where we don't have a strong enough pipeline, right? We have-

Jill James:

That's right.

Dolores Salman:

Folks who are retiring, and again, I'm sure it's the gist of your podcast, people don't really know about this industry or the roles or even what we do. So educating the new generation and emerging professionals, I think it's so critical for anyone who is in EHS to prioritize that. So yes, anytime that I can, I love to mentor. I love to show the other side of safety, the fun side of safety, and how it has really enriched my life. So emerging professionals with the LA ASSP chapter, we did try to host an annual event and bring out those who are new in their career or in programs in the region, in college in the region. Yeah, so it's something that I feel very passionately about, and I think we all need to do better, whether that's [inaudible 00:30:01] or emerging professionals.

Jill James:

Yeah. It's a good call to action for all of us to go back into our communities, back to our colleges, into our networks to try to raise exposure and fill that pipeline, particularly with women, Dolores. I mean, we're still really underrepresented.

Dolores Salman:

Yes. And that was very apparent at the last conference when I saw you this week.

Jill James:

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's still a thing where the lines to the women's restroom is short. Yeah. And the speaker panels as well. I mean, I attended a number of sessions where there were female speakers, but there was a lot of headlines where it was very male dominated, and that was very obvious. Yeah. So we have work to do for sure. We have work to do.

Dolores Salman:

Yes we do.

Jill James:

Yeah. Before I forget, I want hear about Make-A-Wish and how that became a passion for you.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. Well, I have friends and family who have benefited from a wish during their time of illness. I have a very, very close friend of mine who, her daughter was diagnosed with a Wilms' tumor when she was three years old, and she was granted a wish and that helped her during her treatment and during her time. And then I've also had friends who were wish granters and shared the stories. And so I've always known about the organization. I've always felt strongly about their mission and super passionate about granting wishes and helping kids with illness. But I think during the pandemic it really hit home for me in that, one, we take our health for granted. So the-

Jill James:

Indeed.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. The global pandemic shut everything down. And I was just thankful and grateful for every breath, and thankful for my family, and thankful for my friends and my parents. And it was a bit of an existential crisis for me to think about just what was really important at that time at the end of the day, what was really critical. And, two, I thought, "Well, I need to do more. I need to do more." So I got involved with Make-A-Wish to help with fundraising and community engagement and member engagement. And I recently joined their board a couple months ago. So I volunteered for a couple years, and then recently was nominated to their board.

Jill James:

Mm. Volunteer life, it's so fulfilling. And also, I don't know, it helps us human, it helps us in our jobs. I just can't think of aspects that it doesn't touch in life. I too have found volunteerism very rewarding.

Dolores Salman:

Yes, absolutely. And I think it doesn't help that growing up, again, being first generation, my mom always saying, "Do you know how much you have here in America? Do you know in the Philippines they can't even afford a cup of rice?" And so I have to thank my parents for really instilling philanthropy and really giving back-

Jill James:

Gratitude, yeah.

Dolores Salman:

And gratitude. Absolutely.

Jill James:

Yeah. You had mentioned the pandemic... I can't say that today. Crisis. We all experienced that well. Many of us experienced that internally and externally. I've been thinking a lot about the ways in which it shaped our careers. What are your observations about the pandemic and how it's shaped the EHS profession?

Dolores Salman:

You mean how we're all rock stars now?

Jill James:

Exactly. There's going to be a whole new Hollywood Walk of Fame. We're all getting stars.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So I actually have thoughts about that. Obviously, it elevated our roles in the organization, and it just pushed us to the forefront, right?

Jill James:

Yeah.

Dolores Salman:

So I think we all have battle scars, and we all have battle stories and war stories for EHS professionals who had to develop programs and stand up testing and contact tracing, and all of the amazing things that we've done in the past two to three years. But on the flip side, I struggle with this because there are some folks at my company and every other company that thinks, "Oh, well, now they're just COVID safety officers, right?" And so coming out of the pandemic, it's really important... Actually, during the pandemic, even when we were meeting with various departments, yes, we would talk about COVID, but I stressed to my team that, "Hey, listen, COVID is just one hazard that needs to be mitigated, so don't forget to talk about all the other elements of safety." And so I think what's happening now is there is an education that needs to happen, a reeducation that, "Hey, don't just call us for COVID. Here is a long list of things that we can do, and you could see COVID or pandemic preparedness is just one bullet. Here is the rest." And so, spending some time with the global team this week, we're actually doing a roadshow, what we're calling a roadshow, and we put together a deck of who we are, what we do, when to call us, and just to, again, educate the business on we don't go away just because COVID is going away, right? There's so much more that we can do. So I guess a reeducation, and also just making sure that the value in our function is not just for COVID.

Jill James:

I love that. I mean, this is such a great thing to share with our listeners, Dolores, an EHS roadshow. Gosh. Well, I mean, we've been needing to do that in our industry for our profession for many, many years. And, like you, I feel like we had an opportunity for a light to be shown on our profession in a way uniformly that has never ever happened before, where so many of us have done our work in the corners and in the shadows, except when something was going sideways. And then it's like, "Oh, we have this EHS professional," or, "We need to bring them forward because something has gone sideways." And then the sideways happened to all of us at exactly the same time for exactly the same hazard, and we got to elbow and shoulder our ways into tables with our cohorts in other cross-functional places where we've never had that opportunity before. And so now here we are, and oh my gosh, we're not going back. I mean, that's what I heard at the conference this week. The access that our profession has had that we've never had before is a direct result of the pandemic.

Dolores Salman:

Yes. Absolutely.

Jill James:

Yeah. And so at the time to take an EHS roadshow on the road to remind, "Hey, here's how else we can be helpful." And just even hearing this week at the conference, for the first time in ever at a conference, gosh, almost every session I went to had something to do with diversity, equity, and inclusion, and how critical that is to our work as well, where we might not have ever talked about that before. Yeah. And then layering in this emerging thing that's hitting our profession with environmental social governance. That's another piece we heard a lot about today, and I'm curious to hear how that's making its way into your career right now.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. So obviously 2020 was madness right there. I think everything from heat waves to storms, you talked about gender and race and pay disparities and food shortages. So I think businesses and organizations really struggled with elements that were outside of just the typical financial indicators and financial efforts, right? What we realized was that social environmental components were impacting companies' revenues, reputation, and also retention efforts, right? There's quiet quitting happening.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. I mean, in our industry too, I mean, gosh, you and I have both, I'm sure, talked with several people who are like, "It's untenable where I am. I'm moving on," or, "All the warts got exposed during the pandemic. Time for me to go."

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. And just burnout. Yeah. And so, obviously, I was seeing this shift and this change in how businesses were looking at ESG topics. And I thought, "Huh, well, what do I need to be doing in this space?" And so I started the ESG journey really to, one, be prepared to what Netflix was going to ask me for, and to make sure that I had the data for what was material to Netflix. And then two, to explore, well, is this a theme that an EHS professional can do? Can we pivot from EHS into into ESG? And so in 2021, I started a program. There's a gal named Helle Bank Jørgensen, who has a ESG for Competent Boards designation, and so I believe I was the sixth cohort for this group. And we really dove into all of the elements of CSG and what is relevant to the board, and how it translates also to, again, shareholder and stakeholder engagement. So completed that in 2021, and I've just been staying close and following what's been happening. So I think as EHS professionals we should be aware of at least two things. So I guess a lot of the pain points from companies and organizations is that there is a lot of greenwashing happening, and companies are voluntarily sharing their CSR reports and voluntarily developing their reports, but there's really no unified reporting method. And last year, the ISSB, the International Sustainability Standards Board, was created and really charged with looking at, "Hey, we need common reporting standards on sustainability."

Jill James:

Because it's a free for all right now.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. It's a free for all right now. It's an apples to orange comparison. And it's just if financial reporting is going to be mandatory or rated, then we need to have a unified reporting method. So there's a lot of work around common standards. And then, two is what used to be voluntary is now mandatory, so in particular in the EU, I think EHS should stay close to the CSRD, so the new Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive. And essentially, this is setting common European rules and essentially requiring companies to conduct a double materiality assessment and report on what is material to their organizations. And I want to say, don't quote me on this, more than 50,000 companies met the threshold and have to start reporting, and it will be mandatory starting next year.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. And it helps avoid the greenwashing you were talking about.

Dolores Salman:

Exactly. So unified reporting, so we'll see some standardization across the board, and then now this shift with it being non-mandatory, non-financial disclosures, so compliance driven and policy driven.

Jill James:

Right. I mean, it's certainly something for our professional practice to be digging into right now. I mean, some people who are listening are going to be, "Jill, what did you just say? You just said ESG? What does that even mean?" And if you're in that camp, you can go back one episode to episode 95, and I did a ESG 101, so hopefully that can help some of you. And others of you listening, this might be now part of your job, or, in Dolores's case, you're starting to pay attention to it. And like you said in the beginning, Dolores, you're a lifelong learner, and so you've really positioned yourself to start learning about this anticipating that at least pieces of this will be part of your job going forward.

Dolores Salman:

Yes. And I don't want the EHS professionals to feel bad or that they don't know enough about ESG. EHS, again, there are elements of it where our scope touches, but quite frankly, there are no ESG experts out there. There are sustainability experts, there are DEI experts, there are EHS experts, there are security experts, and there are audit and governance committees. And it's all elements that contribute to ESG, right? The EHS is not equal to ESG. We are part of that story, but we are-

Jill James:

Not the whole story.

Dolores Salman:

We are not the whole story. And I think there are some ESG roles that are open, and it asks for five to 10 years of experience in ESG. I'm like, hold on, let's take a step back.

Jill James:

Who is that?

Dolores Salman:

That is a unicorn. And if you find that person, kudos to you. So I think, like you said, just learn. Take it day by day and know that you don't have to know everything. I think EHS professionals are prime for these rules because, one, we understand management systems, so if you've implemented an ISO 14001 or 45001 system. I mean, we understand how to develop programs, how to drive initiatives, how to gather lots of data, whether it's incident injury data or environmental, air, water ways. We're used to developing programs and managing data.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. And reporting, and doing it in a way that, I heard someone this week at NSC was doing a presentation on ESG, environmental social governance, and her recommendation was to remember to bring your receipts, which was her simplistic way of saying you have to prove what you're doing so we can avoid this greenwashing you were talking about. But our profession is poised for that. We're used to bringing the documentation and showing that it's truthful.

Dolores Salman:

Yes. And we also work very well on cross-functional teams from top to bottom, and again, being able to bring in all the different partners and build those relationships. We typically have relationships with legal and compliance and operations and talent, and we are sometimes a glue. And if you look at an organization and who has that touch throughout the organization, it's typically EHS.

Jill James:

That's right. When you were talking before about how you've been educating yourself in this topic, specifically you talked about a cohort you were part of with Helle, I believe is the name you used?

Dolores Salman:

Uh-huh.

Jill James:

Yeah. Is that an organization that is something we should share in the show notes of the podcast, if other people want to be part of that, or is it something that's really specific to your region where you live?

Dolores Salman:

No, it was a global cohort, so it was very, very early mornings for me, but it was a global group, and it's called ESG for Competent Boards, essentially.

Jill James:

Okay. Well, we might look for a link to share in the show notes for people that think that sounds like something that they might be interested in.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. There are so many different programs, Jill. I think Tim Mohan, he has a weekly newsletter that he sends out on LinkedIn just for climate and sustainability news. Green Fin is a great organization. They have an annual conference with the investor community and sustainability professionals. That's been very valuable. I think Harvard Business School has an online ESG certification. So I think it just depends.

Jill James:

Those are good tips.

Dolores Salman:

Yeah. It depends on what you want to do with the certificate or the education, and what you need from it is what I say. For me, being on the board of Make-A-Wish and also understanding what my business needs. For me, the Competent Board designation worked for me.

Jill James:

That worked for you? Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of those resources. That's wonderful. Appreciate it. Dolores, as we start wrapping up our time today, I'm curious to hear about what life is like today. You met with your global team this week. You've got this EHS roadshow coming up. What's day to day life like now, and what are you focused on?

Dolores Salman:

Yeah, I think the outside of day to day compliance and really managing the team, recruiting, retaining talent, it really is the education piece. I have had departments that they didn't want to, didn't care about safety in 2019, and now they want to know more, "What else can you do?" And again, I utilize contingent talent and some contractors, and they came in to support COVID and reducing those EHS services to the business. Some folks are like, "Hey, hold on. We really liked having EHS on our corner." So this quarter we're really focusing on setting up the foundation for our objectives and key results, what we want to track for next year, make sure we have those systems in place. And really just getting out there. And the roadshow is a big priority on who we are, what we do, what our priorities are, and how we could add value to the business.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. Hm. Great tip for anyone who's listening. I think we should all be doing a roadshow this year. Follow Dolores. This is a great idea. It's a great idea.

Dolores Salman:

And then one thing I haven't shared with my team, but again, thinking about this EHS to ESG and the gaps that EHS team members might have, I am looking at media training for my team. We, like you had alluded to earlier, were typically in the background, on the sidelines building programs. If you build it, they will come. And with the shift to ESG, it's a different spotlight. It's investor relations, it's media. And so I am looking for media training for my team, so really preparing leaders for expert interviews, news delivery. Obviously we're pretty good with crisis communication, but I think that's really important for the next step of EHS.

Jill James:

Boy, that is so wise. Yeah, you're right. And anyone listening who has ever dealt with a crisis at work, you know hat you get asked right away, and then the question is, "Am I the person speaking, or is the CEO or president or leadership of the team speaking?" And then, if it's them, they might be looking at you saying, "What can I say? What should I say?" And really trying to figure that out. I know I've coached companies around that in the past where a leader will say, "Do I talk to my employees about this thing that happened? Do I talk to the local community? What do I say? How do we do this?" And it's not like every single place of employment has media experts at hand. I worked for the government for a long time, and we had a communications department, and every time I was investigating a fatality or a serious injury, the questions would come from local media asking for a statement and I always had to redirect because I worked for the government and they had a specific way to do that. But these sort of things, they touch all of our lives. And we also have the opportunity in our work to talk about the great things and share those with our wider communities and where we do business as well. That's beautiful. That sounds like a great initiative for this year.

Dolores Salman:

Should be fun.

Jill James:

Yeah. Dolores, anything else that you'd like to share with our audience today?

Dolores Salman:

No. Keep fighting the good fight. Remember to protect yourselves. Your health is your wealth, and you can't protect others if you don't protect yourself first. So fill your cup, as Sabina says. Make sure to fill your cup, because you can't fill others cups if yours isn't filled.

Jill James:

That's right. And you've just quoted our friend, Sabina, who has been a guest on the podcast as well, and if I had all 96 episodes memorized in order, I'd be able to quickly say, "Go listen to episode whatever to listen to Sabina," but I don't seem them all memorized right now.

Dolores Salman:

I think, again, as EHS professionals we're constantly giving and we're selfless. Especially after these past three years. My goodness. It's been nothing but giving. So take some time.

Jill James:

Yeah, absolutely. Dolores, thank you so much for sharing your story with us today. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Dolores Salman:

Thank you so much, Jill.

Jill James:

Mm-hmm. And thank you all for spending your time listening. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good, making sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day. If you haven't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes, it really helps us connect the show with more and more EHS professionals like Dolores. Special thanks to Naeem Jaraysi, our podcast producer. And until next time, thanks for listening.